Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

[Cortopassi]

The main thing here, for me, on this, and other alternative theories, etc, is am am sure in some of your eyes I am naive.

But I like to think most (>99.9%?) of people out there are not nefarious. Are not trying to mess with or control my life. Are trying to do good.

Because that's how I am. I like to think most people are like me. Want to leave the world a better place.

On Gates, for example, BS: https://apnews.com/article/fact-checkin ... 9917566788 He was talking about lowering population growth, not the number of people.

He has his position on alternative energy, climate change, and other critical things that you are absolutely free to disagree with.

You don't have to justify anything or apologize. This board happens to have a small number class A "personalities" who bring zero to a discussion other than strong opinions and the ability to shift topic if they don't have a response to a valid and substantiated counterpoint. You know their completely out of substance when they bring up wool producing mammals. If you got nothing divert or launch an insult and claim minority superiority...because you know, they see it all so much clearly than everyone else.

But Carto, do take great comfort that our mask freedom fighters are keeping the world safe for democracy. Truly heroic. I get chills up and down my spine every time I see one of them brazenly toss a face diaper to the side...inspiring, absolutely inspiring. If only I had such courage. Hold on for a second, I need to go munch on some grass and kick some raisins out my hindquarters.

Getting back on topic, one of the ways pandemics die out is they kill their hosts and afterward die out themselves. I suspect if the board doesn't change it won't be here in 3-5 years or if it is the # of contributors will be about 5-10 with echo chamber nirvana achieved. This place used to be able to hang with Bogleheads easily in terms of good financial discussion and legit alternative viewpoints on financial issues...uh, yeah, not so much these days. Let's just say it ain't 2014-2015 around here anymore.

Just like the decaying sinusoid that I posted a couple days ago -- I derived great value here for the first 2-3 years. Now, I wonder more and more why I am still here. This topic, for example, is simply an extension of the politics forum without Trump. There is no real discussion. There are mainly hard set positions that I try to dispute but to what end?

And for murphy and others on Gates, have a gander here: https://www.gatesfoundation.org/

The population growth thing, if you read a couple articles, is counter-intuitive. By improving early childhood death rates, the hope is that will lead to smaller families, because parents know their kids will have a better chance to make it into adulthood.

Sure, it is their website. But go and try and find another couple humans who have spent so much of their own money and time to try and improve the world. Instead you pick a comment that was purposely twisted and make all the good he's done seem trivial.

[murphy_p_t]

Nice projection, kgb

[murphy_p_t]

Kbg...

Why are you personally going to submit yourself to the experiment rather than taking the proven and safe treatment?

[Tortoise]

Given that I already got the virus a couple of months ago (smell and taste still haven't returned), presumably my body has developed natural immunity to it, right? So my understanding is that the vaccine wouldn't confer much, if any, additional immunity to me.

Yet I think the official CDC guidance is that even people like me who got sick from the virus and recovered should still get the vaccine.

So if I don't get the vaccine, does that make me selfish? Would I be placing a burden on the rest of society?

[SomeDude]

Also, you seem not to be aware that people taken in by cults and mass panics are tricked into these modes of thinking. This is part of why people of otherwise reasonable intelligence become immune to logic and facts

And why talking to them should only be done for entertainment purposes......

[glennds]

Not to hijack, but I mean Gates has done more for population growth than virtually anyone else by pumping millions into sanitation and wiping out disease in India.

The horror. Now THAT'S a villain.
And I think you meant pumping billions, not millions.

Their Reinvent the Toilet Challenge is really interesting in terms of some of the innovative designs and solutions that different inventors and entrepreneurs have developed.
https://www.gatesfoundation.org/What-We ... e-and-Expo

[dualstow]

Billions, yeah. I figured I'd be safe with millions.

[murphy_p_t]

Also, you seem not to be aware that people taken in by cults and mass panics are tricked into these modes of thinking. This is part of why people of otherwise reasonable intelligence become immune to logic and facts

And why talking to them should only be done for entertainment purposes......

Notice how all the acolytes of their messiah (strike...cult leader) jump to action at The mention of His name

[Kbg]

For murph,

Let's take them 1 by 1

"Nice projection, kgb"

This one we can take a snapshot of reality with some data. I know you aren't big on that but let's find out, shall we? I could be wrong on this, just a hunch.

Hey board admins, how are the board stats? New users coming and staying, old users leaving, active current users. How does that compare to when you guys took the board over from Craig? We growing or shrinking?

"Why are you personally going to submit yourself to the experiment rather than taking the proven and safe treatment?"

Fair question. I'm glad some people with real, actual courage signed up for the test trials. I've always thought people who would sign up for medical test trials of any kind unless they had a terminal disease have a lot of courage. And even those with terminal diseases have courage as they know they are taking on risk that could worsen, not improve things. I think for some there is compensation, IDK about the COVID trials. In any event...actual physical courage is being demonstrated by personal action vs. gutless anti-mask freedom fighters who aren't risking anything. Of course, if any of the fake news reports are accurate a lot of them paid for their convictions with their lives...so let's be generous and give those who were elderly and/or had health issues props for standing on their convictions when it was against their own best interests. Too bad they were being lied to for political purposes.

But I digress...what about me? I'm not sweating this one more than I would sweat any other vaccination. This is the most studied virus in all of history and there is a huge number who have received the vaccination by now and we pretty much know what can be expected with everyone of them with a buttload of data. Of course, this is completely amazing given the virus doesn't even exist. I'll report back if I get a third eye five years from now...For sure I am taking a calculated risk on long-term effects. We don't know, what we don't know. Feel free to launch your best Simpson's "Nelson" if the third eye manifests itself down the road. We wool producing mammals deserve nothing less.

As mentioned earlier, I think we will see international travel restrictions related to immunization and I want to travel internationally again for pleasure. So I'm assuming us sheep will get to travel and rugged individualist mask freedom fighters will raise their fists in protest as I sail off from the pier. I'll raise my glass and and make a quiet toast to these heroes as they get smaller and eventually fade over the horizon.

Second, I minister to people in my church and it indeed has been difficult balancing their physical safety with their spiritual needs. I'm grateful for Zoom, and it has been a gap filler, but we all know it isn't the same as in person stuff. On really difficult decisions I normally operate on the principle of least regret if something goes bad. For me since I'm still out and about because I have to be, I haven't wanted to bring COVID into their homes. When I do visit the elderly personally, I do so only if they are comfortable with the visit, I always wear a high quality mask, I keep six feet away and I'm nervous the entire time. Not for me as I'm relatively healthy, but nervous that I bring something into their homes. Knock on wood, I haven't done so. I'm pretty excited because just about all of the elderly in our church have received both doses, I'll be done by the end of March and then we can get back to something more near normal.

And why talking to them should only be done for entertainment purposes......

Completely entertaining for sure. My daughter and son-in-law live close by and they raise a small heard of sheep (cross my heart this one is true). I go practice my "bahaaaha" vocalizing a couple of times a week, but they just think I'm there to feed them. Makes me mad. Well, I don't really do that, but they do raise sheep. It's lambing season right now and lambs are normally born in the middle of the night. You should see the devotion the mommas have and how they continue to stand guard if their newborns don't make it through the cold winter's night. They freak out too when you haul the newborn's dead carcass away the following morning. I don't know, maybe sheep are pretty cool in how they act. What do you think?

For those interested, here's the latest on post vaccination recommendations from the socialist's ministry of health propaganda site
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... nated.html

Incredible the comrades slipped up and admitted there are somethings not known yet. I may have to go jump in bed with my binkie. I don't deal with ambiguity and uncertainty well.

[murphy_p_t]

Kbg... I note that you totally avoid the question about why not ivermectin, and rather submit yourself to the experiment

[murphy_p_t]

To anyone who is received the Wuhan injections...

Did you sign a waiver acknowledging that you are submitting yourself to human experimentation? Did the administrator of the injection make perfectly clear that this is done on an experimental basis only?

[Xan]

Murphy, you're being disingenuous. kbg is responding with thorough, well-thought-out discussions that do answer your questions, despite your allegations that they don't. (For example, no "treatment" is going to prevent him from dragging this thing into old folks' homes.)

You are very much in "everybody but me is an idiot" territory and it's tiresome and not welcome here. You're perfectly welcome to your opinion but please keep in mind that reasonable people can disagree on just about anything.

[Kbg]

Kbg... I note that you totally avoid the question about why not ivermectin, and rather submit yourself to the experiment

Probably because I didn't see "hey kbg answer this question" in the original post.

Besides, I thought ducking/ignoring hard questions if you didn't like them was ok within the anti-face diaper intellectual space. No?

[Kbg]

Kbg... I note that you totally avoid the question about why not ivermectin, and rather submit yourself to the experiment

I have an answer now for this one...as I had no idea what ivermectin was until about 15 minutes ago.

I know this is also a socialist health propaganda site but let's see if you can handle some facts based logical thinking.

A quote from the comrades at the NIH:

Recommendation
There are insufficient data for the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19. Results from adequately powered, well-designed, and well-conducted clinical trials are needed to provide more specific, evidence-based guidance on the role of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19.
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines. ... vermectin/

vs.

In a Saturday statement, Chezy Levy, Director-General of Israel’s Health ministry, said, “The vaccine dramatically reduces serious illness and death and you can see this influence in our morbidity statistics.”

In Israel, as of today’s reporting, 4,250,643 people have received at least one dose and 2,881,825 have received both doses. The country has a population of about 9 million. Approximately 3 million Israelis are not currently eligible for the vaccines, including people younger than 16 years of age and people who have recovered from COVID-19. Israel has been vaccinating almost exclusively with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

https://www.biospace.com/article/israel ... of-deaths/

This is so obvious why didn't I think of it...dude, where can I get me some ivermectin?

Just so you know, those bolded black numbers were highlighted deliberately...are you familiar with the concept of statistical sample size? If not, go spend the 15 minutes I did Googling and educate yourself about why those numbers are meaningful.

[Cortopassi]

Thank you kbg for your response. It caused a good chuckle.

But the one thing that stood out was courage. I didn't think of it that way until now. Mainly my wife and I would watch the initial people on TV in the vaccine trials and say to each other -- I don't think I would do that.

It solidifies my sense that 99.9% of people are good. And there's a percentage of those who are really, really good and do things like this, for the good of all. Just like those vets who went to war.

Damn, that puts a good perspective on this.

[Mountaineer]

kbg,

I really liked the "courage" perspective. Kudos!

.

[yankees60]

I think I've already said some of this...but to give a complete story...


Last year I was quite willing to play softball when there was no available vaccine. I was not concerned about the virus. But we never played because we did not have enough teams willing to play under the conditions we would have been playing under (wearing masks, using sanitizers, no sharing of bats, among other things).


For almost a year now I've been living an extremely isolated life so there has been little opportunity for the virus to get me and getting a vaccine was not urgent.


But this year it looks almost certain we WILL have softball starting the usual time in May with fields being available for practices as of April 10th. Now this put a certain urgency into getting a vaccine. I was now regularly going to be fairly close to 10 to 15 people for a few hours, albeit all of it while we were all outdoors. I desperately wanted to get my vaccine shots prior to softball practices starting.


I'm sure there is some name for my inconsistency between last year not having worries about playing with no vaccine while this year I desperately wanted it so as to play.


Last week I started looking for a vaccine. I thought I'd only started a day after I was eligible but I later learned I'd started nearly two weeks later.


I created an Excel worksheet of all the possibilities for vaccinations so I could try as many as possible in the least amount of time.


This morning felt like a huge waste of time, spending a lot of time looking and coming up with no appointments.


A big one was coming up at 4 PM today.


I was READY! I had six different browser windows open so that I could launch an all out rapid fire attack on getting this appointment.


To my shock and amazement I got in on the first try on the first browser.


When the whole process was completed I was overjoyed and ecstatic.


Shortly after I was outside, working in my garden area, preparing the soil.


When a highly danceable J.Geils Band song came on my iPod I started dancing around and did so through the entire song. That is what it felt like to me to be on the steps to getting my first shot next Thursday and the second one two weeks later. The second one is April 9, which is one day before we can start softball practices. Perfect timing!

There were two HUGE documents I had to scroll through to then give my consent to at the bottom. I did not read a word of either as my goal was to just get through the process before all my competitors and get the appointment, which I successfully did.

I do believe that I happened to catch on my way to scrolling to the bottom of one or both of the documents that it is the Pfizer vaccine I will be receiving.

Now when I do go for any medical procedure and I'm asked to sign something I do read every word prior to signing. And, am I not correct that every time I've signed one that I'm told that medicine is an art and not a science and therefore they will never guarantee the efficacy of anything they do to me?

How is this any different?

I heard and read enough from highly respected people (including some here) to put me totally at ease about getting this vaccine.

I turn 70 next month. I have never had a flu shot in my life. Never had been strongly motivated enough to get one, primarily because I rarely get any type of sickness.

That's my story!

[murphy_p_t]

Murphy, you're being disingenuous. kbg is responding with thorough, well-thought-out discussions that do answer your questions, despite your allegations that they don't. (For example, no "treatment" is going to prevent him from dragging this thing into old folks' homes.)

You are very much in "everybody but me is an idiot" territory and it's tiresome and not welcome here. You're perfectly welcome to your opinion but please keep in mind that reasonable people can disagree on just about anything.

Out of gratitude and respect for the owners and moderators of this forum, I am honoring the referee call made by Xan.

[murphy_p_t]

In case anybody's interested in the body count scoreboard on the experimental biological agent, which is purported to be safe and effective....

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findf ... 9&DIED=Yes

[murphy_p_t]

I'm sharing this in case anyone is interested to know about an effort to defend civil rights relating to mandatory medical treatments.

https://stopmedicaldiscrimination.org/

This is organized by America's Frontline doctors and Dr Simone gold.

[Kbg]

Vinny,

There has been a lot discussed on this thread...one thing I believe is a legit, though unknowable concern at this time, is if there will be any LT side effects.

Using Rumsfeld's quadrant...we have a known, known (the risks and effects of getting covid) and an known unknown (LT side effects).

Let us know how it goes health wise. In my immediate/extended family it has been a mixed bag. On the most negative side one person was pretty much down for 5 days to another that had absolutely nothing. It seems most feel a little weird for a day or two but not enough to change their daily routine. That sorta makes sense based on actual COVID cases.

kbg

[Kbg]

In case anybody's interested in the body count scoreboard on the experimental biological agent, which is purported to be safe and effective....

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findf ... 9&DIED=Yes

murph brought real data, sweet! Seriously, thanks for the link. (The other site is pure garbage and doesn't merit a repost or comment...oh sorry I already commented that just slipped right out didn't it?)

For context which is always an important thing...https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... vents.html

I scanned several of the individual entries in the database of which most detail their final hours on earth...a good reminder that human lives are behind all these numbers.

[yankees60]

Vinny,

There has been a lot discussed on this thread...one thing I believe is a legit, though unknowable concern at this time, is if there will be any LT side effects.

Using Rumsfeld's quadrant...we have a known, known (the risks and effects of getting covid) and an known unknown (LT side effects).

Let us know how it goes health wise. In my immediate/extended family it has been a mixed bag. On the most negative side one person was pretty much down for 5 days to another that had absolutely nothing. It seems most feel a little weird for a day or two but not enough to change their daily routine. That sorta makes sense based on actual COVID cases.

kbg

I will do so. I have had a lot of friends tell me that they'd had either one or both of their shots. Not one of them has mentioned any immediate negative consequences.

In my adult life the only vaccinations I can remember getting was a tetanus shot sometime last decade. Since I've never received a flu shot is there anything else I'm possibly forgetting? Therefore, I can give no general statement of my reaction to vaccinations.

With severe allergies from 4 years old through 12 year old or so I know I received innumerable anti-histamine shots. Do do not know if they qualify as vaccinations. Never had any adverse reaction to them with the benefit of them reducing the negativity of the reactions to my various allergies.

[barrett]

I had the first Pfizer shot yesterday around noon. Had some injection site soreness about 12 hours later that is dissipating already this morning. About in line with what I feel when I get a flu shot. Also have some muscle soreness but that's likely because I hiked ten miles on Friday and another ten Saturday. 2nd does is scheduled for April 3. Will start looking for an appointment for my wife on 3/22 when her age cohort becomes eligible.

[yankees60]

I had the first Pfizer shot yesterday around noon. Had some injection site soreness about 12 hours later that is dissipating already this morning. About in line with what I feel when I get a flu shot. Also have some muscle soreness but that's likely because I hiked ten miles on Friday and another ten Saturday. 2nd does is scheduled for April 3. Will start looking for an appointment for my wife on 3/22 when her age cohort becomes eligible.

1) You got the same vaccine I will be getting.

2) Your schedule is six days ahead of mine.

3) The soreness? We shall see. But I do a standard set of exercises every Monday / Wednesday / Friday. During those days and other days various pains come and go. Last week I had excruciating pain in my left wrist for a few days. Don't know what brought it on. Only felt it when the wrist was in a certain position. Then it completely disappeared as rapidly as it'd appeared.

Things like that are constantly coming and going. Therefore, we'll see if I'll be able to distinguish any reaction to the vaccine from any of the other pains that come and go in my life.