U.S. Politics - Left vs Right

[joypog]

Note: split off from Left Eating Itself II / DS
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I went from socially liberal, but politically apathetic to being a partisan Democrat in 2004 with the twin calamities of the Iraq war and Katrina. I felt that if the party of "small" government couldn't govern, then I might as well vote for the party that believed in running a proper government, even if it was at the risk of enlarging the State.

The bumbling Dem administration is making me rethink that position. I'm amenable to SJW theory, but not at the expense of a competent government.

Unfortunately, the Republican embrace of authoritarianism in the person of Mr. Trump is unacceptable.

How do y'all balance this shit out?

[Xan]

I went from socially liberal, but politically apathetic to being a partisan Democrat in 2004 with the twin calamities of the Iraq war and Katrina. I felt that if the party of "small" government couldn't govern, then I might as well vote for the party that believed in running a proper government, even if it was at the risk of enlarging the State.

The bumbling Dem administration is making me rethink that position. I'm amenable to SJW theory, but not at the expense of a competent government.

Unfortunately, the Republican embrace of authoritarianism in the person of Mr. Trump is unacceptable.

How do y'all balance this shit out?

Hope that Trump has become sufficiently radioactive that he can't win the nomination again. Last time he might have been the only one who could beat Hillary. This time he could be the only one who could lose to Biden.

My fear is that the non-Trump vote will be split umpteen ways and lead to a Trump nomination. Hopefully things coalesce quickly around one other candidate.

[joypog]

I just don't get this. How can you call Republicans authoritarian when it is the Left that is/was the party of lockdowns, mask and vax mandates, cancel culture, removal of due process when it suits them, etc, etc etc?

Trump attempted a coup and the Republicans are still busy trying to cover it up.

Would you rather have cancer or a heart attack?*

At least you might have a fighting chance with the first one.

*I believe I heard this line from Kevin Williamson.

[joypog]

I said attempted. His incompetence doesn't make it ok and makes the Republican pusillanimity all the more craven.

Kind of crazy to think that I'm on the side of Liz Cheney. Politics makes odd bedfellows.

If the GOP gets their act together and nominate anyone but Trump, they will clean up 2024. But I doubt Trump will let them.

btw my primary news source are the folks at the Remnant so its not a lib MSM issue for my opinion shaping....

[flyingpylon]

Kind of crazy to think that I'm on the side of Liz Cheney.

Perhaps this should make you question some things.

[Xan]

I sincerely hope that Biden will retire and not run for reelection. He's just too damn old.

Didn't he promise during the primaries that he wouldn't run for re-election?

[Kbg]

It's incredible how old our national politicians of prominence are...

[joypog]

Kind of crazy to think that I'm on the side of Liz Cheney.

Perhaps this should make you question some things.

I know.

My artist college buddy who spent the last years of his life working on for an anti-war non profit in Berkeley will haunt me tonight for writing that.

[Kbg]

Kind of crazy to think that I'm on the side of Liz Cheney.

Perhaps this should make you question some things.

I know.

My artist college buddy who spent the last years of his life working on for an anti-war non profit in Berkeley will haunt me tonight for writing that.

It's ok joypog. I have found in life that good and decent people are everywhere. It's ok to like them even if they don't have the same take on a lot of, even most of, the stuff we have as individuals.

[I Shrugged]

I said attempted. His incompetence doesn't make it ok and makes the Republican pusillanimity all the more craven.

Kind of crazy to think that I'm on the side of Liz Cheney. Politics makes odd bedfellows.

If the GOP gets their act together and nominate anyone but Trump, they will clean up 2024. But I doubt Trump will let them.

btw my primary news source are the folks at the Remnant so its not a lib MSM issue for my opinion shaping....

If you like war, Liz is your person. She hates Trump because he rightly criticized her father’s wars.

[Xan]

I said attempted. His incompetence doesn't make it ok and makes the Republican pusillanimity all the more craven.

Kind of crazy to think that I'm on the side of Liz Cheney. Politics makes odd bedfellows.

If the GOP gets their act together and nominate anyone but Trump, they will clean up 2024. But I doubt Trump will let them.

btw my primary news source are the folks at the Remnant so its not a lib MSM issue for my opinion shaping....

If you like war, Liz is your person. She hates Trump because he rightly criticized her father’s wars.

It certainly looks more like a principled stand to me than a personal vendetta, but I suppose that's in the eye of the beholder. For example if she just wanted to cruise to reelection she wouldn't be doing any of this.

[yankees60]

I went from socially liberal, but politically apathetic to being a partisan Democrat in 2004 with the twin calamities of the Iraq war and Katrina. I felt that if the party of "small" government couldn't govern, then I might as well vote for the party that believed in running a proper government, even if it was at the risk of enlarging the State.

The bumbling Dem administration is making me rethink that position. I'm amenable to SJW theory, but not at the expense of a competent government.

Unfortunately, the Republican embrace of authoritarianism in the person of Mr. Trump is unacceptable.

How do y'all balance this shit out?

Katrina was August 2005.

[joypog]

Fair enough, I started grad school in 2004 so that date stuck out...and mixed it up with the start of my second year. That summer, I took the Sunset Limited from Los Angeles to Houston. As such, I spent a two days with families who were heading out to NOLA a few weeks before Katrina hit.

It was a surreal moment when I realized some of those kids were likely refugees coming back out to west from the flooding.

thinking about it further, the '05 date makes more sense...given the electoral college in Texas, I didn't bother to vote in 2004. I wouldn't have been so blase after Katrina.

[boglerdude]

Trump's shenanigans that got zero traction in all the courts VS DNC/CCP martial law that destroyed two years of child development, delayed/cancelled medical treatments, seniors living their last years isolated, thousands of small businesses wiped out, record overdose deaths.

But the record high inflation benefits asset holders. "Its difficult to make a man understand something, when his retirement depends on not understanding it"

Well, at least the vax works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSZMtSPX3iE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJboqf7peVg

Trump tried to hijack the limo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRoW6XD4Wis

[flyingpylon]

It certainly looks more like a principled stand to me than a personal vendetta, but I suppose that's in the eye of the beholder. For example if she just wanted to cruise to reelection she wouldn't be doing any of this.

Perhaps the principles are not what you think they are.

[Xan]

It certainly looks more like a principled stand to me than a personal vendetta, but I suppose that's in the eye of the beholder. For example if she just wanted to cruise to reelection she wouldn't be doing any of this.

Perhaps the principles are not what you think they are.

I'll bite; what are they?

[Kbg]

Trump's shenanigans that got zero traction in all the courts VS DNC/CCP martial law that destroyed two years of child development, delayed/cancelled medical treatments, seniors living their last years isolated, thousands of small businesses wiped out, record overdose deaths.

Exactly. How anyone can call Rs authoritarian when Ds and Trudeau emulate the CCP is beyond me. Brainwashing at its finest.

Let's cut to the chase...the extremes of both parties are authoritarian so let's not make this an R/D thing. It's an extremist thing. They are cut from the same cloth and do the same damage at the end of the day.

[flyingpylon]

It certainly looks more like a principled stand to me than a personal vendetta, but I suppose that's in the eye of the beholder. For example if she just wanted to cruise to reelection she wouldn't be doing any of this.

Perhaps the principles are not what you think they are.

I'll bite; what are they?

I don't claim to know. But it seems that D vs R is mostly a false dichotomy used to perpetuate false narratives that keep the establishment in power. So sometimes politicians do things that seem counterintuitive to us common folk but support ulterior motives.

[flyingpylon]

Trump's shenanigans that got zero traction in all the courts VS DNC/CCP martial law that destroyed two years of child development, delayed/cancelled medical treatments, seniors living their last years isolated, thousands of small businesses wiped out, record overdose deaths.

Exactly. How anyone can call Rs authoritarian when Ds and Trudeau emulate the CCP is beyond me. Brainwashing at its finest.

Let's cut to the chase...the extremes of both parties are authoritarian so let's not make this an R/D thing. It's an extremist thing. They are cut from the same cloth and do the same damage at the end of the day.

The extremists are just more obvious about it.

[yankees60]

Trump's shenanigans that got zero traction in all the courts VS DNC/CCP martial law that destroyed two years of child development, delayed/cancelled medical treatments, seniors living their last years isolated, thousands of small businesses wiped out, record overdose deaths.

Exactly. How anyone can call Rs authoritarian when Ds and Trudeau emulate the CCP is beyond me. Brainwashing at its finest.

Let's cut to the chase...the extremes of both parties are authoritarian so let's not make this an R/D thing. It's an extremist thing. They are cut from the same cloth and do the same damage at the end of the day.

As usual .... well stated!

[jalanlong]

I went from socially liberal, but politically apathetic to being a partisan Democrat in 2004 with the twin calamities of the Iraq war and Katrina. I felt that if the party of "small" government couldn't govern, then I might as well vote for the party that believed in running a proper government, even if it was at the risk of enlarging the State.

The bumbling Dem administration is making me rethink that position. I'm amenable to SJW theory, but not at the expense of a competent government.

Unfortunately, the Republican embrace of authoritarianism in the person of Mr. Trump is unacceptable.

How do y'all balance this shit out?

Hope that Trump has become sufficiently radioactive that he can't win the nomination again. Last time he might have been the only one who could beat Hillary. This time he could be the only one who could lose to Biden.

My fear is that the non-Trump vote will be split umpteen ways and lead to a Trump nomination. Hopefully things coalesce quickly around one other candidate.

I still believe that was the downfall of the Republicans back in 2016. Once they saw Trump had a sizable coalition, they should have thrown all of their weight behind one candidate like Rubio. Instead they let a bunch of smaller candidates like Cruz hang around and divide up the non-Trump votes and Trump continued to win primaries with his stable 35% while the other candidates all divided up the other voters.

This time they need to find their candidate asap and throw all of their support behind them.

BTW, Hilary's exposed emails suggest that she thought Trump was the only candidate she COULD beat. That is why early on in the primaries she talked about Trump and his policies a lot. She wanted to give him credibility because they were hoping he would win. Their intellegence said Trump and Cruz were the only 2 candidates they thought she could beat due to her unpopularity.

[Mountaineer]

This time they need to find their candidate asap and throw all of their support behind them.

I think that guy is DeSantis. The problem is that Trump may not want to get out of the way.

You heard it here first:
DeSantis vs Newsom in the 2024 presidential election.

I'd be OK with DeSantis. Newsome!!!!! - that is one SCARY thought but at least he has most of his marbles, perhaps a bad thing since he'd figure out how to screw us over more than marbleless Joe.

[jalanlong]

This time they need to find their candidate asap and throw all of their support behind them.

I think that guy is DeSantis. The problem is that Trump may not want to get out of the way.

You heard it here first:
DeSantis vs Newsom in the 2024 presidential election.

How bad will the hatchet job on DeSantis from the media be? Or will they be so obsessed with Trump that they will let him slide thru? DeSantis will have to distance himself from Trump to win the primary so then if he wins then the media will have to work harder to them tie him to Trump in the general election.

[Xan]

I still believe that was the downfall of the Republicans back in 2016. Once they saw Trump had a sizable coalition, they should have thrown all of their weight behind one candidate like Rubio. Instead they let a bunch of smaller candidates like Cruz hang around and divide up the non-Trump votes and Trump continued to win primaries with his stable 35% while the other candidates all divided up the other voters.

It was Cruz who was the strongest non-Trump contender, IIRC. He was the last out and had been solidly in second place. Maybe Rubio should have gotten out sooner.

[jalanlong]

I still believe that was the downfall of the Republicans back in 2016. Once they saw Trump had a sizable coalition, they should have thrown all of their weight behind one candidate like Rubio. Instead they let a bunch of smaller candidates like Cruz hang around and divide up the non-Trump votes and Trump continued to win primaries with his stable 35% while the other candidates all divided up the other voters.

It was Cruz who was the strongest non-Trump contender, IIRC. He was the last out and had been solidly in second place. Maybe Rubio should have gotten out sooner.

Yeah but Rubio was more palatable to the general public vs Hilary. Cruz would definitely not have been. Rubio killed himself with that repeated phrase about Obama "knowing exactly what he was doing." He made Trump's point for him about the other contenders being robots just repeating talking points and not doing anything. He fed right into Republicans like my mother who were tired of the establishment politicians.