PP in Germany

[Grinch]

Hello,

New Year, new Plan.
I start a PP as a German.

25% ETFL50 MSCI World
25% ETFL21 Germany Bund 10+
25% A0S9GB Xetra Gold
25% Cash

Monthly for 1.000 €

This Thread is for Tracking the succsess

[Smith1776]

Nice to see PP'ers from all around the world. Do keep us updated on a Germany PP.

It will be interesting to see how the portfolio performance deviates from a U.S., Canadian, or Australian version.

[dualstow]

Best of luck to you, Grinch.

[Grinch]

Thank you

[Vil]

Happy new year and bon voyage with your PP. I wish I've started my PP now... but it is what it is.. we're just playing the cards we're dealt...

[Grinch]

Happy new year and bon voyage with your PP. I wish I've started my PP now... but it is what it is.. we're just playing the cards we're dealt...

Thank you. Yes 2022 was bad. We will see, what this year is worth?!

[frugal]

Hello,

New Year, new Plan.
I start a PP as a German.

25% ETFL50 MSCI World
25% ETFL21 Germany Bund 10+
25% A0S9GB Xetra Gold
25% Cash

Monthly for 1.000 €

This Thread is for Tracking the succsess

Hi GRINCH!

Which ETF tickers did you chose?

Please specify them.

You enter in a good point

[Grinch]

ELFW For MSCI World
EL4V For Bund 10+
4GLD for Gold

[Grinch]

The year isn't quite over yet. I am quite happy with the result for 2023. Even the long-term bonds still deliver a conciliatory result at the end of the year. Overall I have a performance of +3.88% and an interest rate of 7.80%
At the end of the year, some interest from the daily money will be added. The bandwidths for rebalancing have not been touched, so things can continue into the new year.

[frugal]

The year isn't quite over yet. I am quite happy with the result for 2023. Even the long-term bonds still deliver a conciliatory result at the end of the year. Overall I have a performance of +3.88% and an interest rate of 7.80%
At the end of the year, some interest from the daily money will be added. The bandwidths for rebalancing have not been touched, so things can continue into the new year.

Hi


Only 3,8? Or

Discounted inflation?

Are you losing money ?

Regards

[Grinch]

This is the First year with monthly 1000 Euro. The money-weighted return calculation is 7,8%

[Grinch]

The year isn't quite over yet. I am very quite happy with the result for 2024.

In 2024 I have a performance of +13.94% and an interest rate of 14.04%

The Overall Performance is: 18.97% and the interest rate is 12.54%

The bandwidths for rebalancing have not been touched, so things can continue into the new year.

The Allocation is actual:
27.03% Stocks
22.09% long Bond
27.98% Gold
22.90% Cash

[frugal]

The year isn't quite over yet. I am very quite happy with the result for 2024.

In 2024 I have a performance of +13.94% and an interest rate of 14.04%

The Overall Performance is: 18.97% and the interest rate is 12.54%

The bandwidths for rebalancing have not been touched, so things can continue into the new year.

The Allocation is actual:
27.03% Stocks
22.09% long Bond
27.98% Gold
22.90% Cash

Which etfs are you using now?

Regards

[Grinch]

The same procedure as last year Miss Sophie
https://www.ardmediathek.de/video/dinne ... zEtMTUtNTA

ELFW For MSCI World
EL4V For Bund 10+
4GLD for Gold

[frugal]

The same procedure as last year Miss Sophie
https://www.ardmediathek.de/video/dinne ... zEtMTUtNTA

ELFW For MSCI World
EL4V For Bund 10+
4GLD for Gold

Hi


What is that link?!

Which etf is for cash ?

Regards

[Grinch]

The link is a joke and a famos TV Special in Germany, to explain „The Same Procedere…“
Cash is a simple Account. The balance is currently not so high that it is no longer covered by deposit insurance.

[frugal]

The same procedure as last year Miss Sophie
https://www.ardmediathek.de/video/dinne ... zEtMTUtNTA

ELFW For MSCI World
EL4V For Bund 10+
4GLD for Gold

Hi


Why do you chose ELFW For MSCI World ?


Why not simple EXSI etf ?

Hug

[Grinch]

The easiest way to buy for me

[Grinch]

I've made some changes to the securities. The goal is to reduce fees.

I completely sold the MSCI World ETF (ELFW) and the Deutsche Boerse EUROGOV Germany 10+ (EL4V).
The new funds are index funds from Vanguard (not listed on the stock exchange).
- Global Stock Index Fund - EUR Acc (VANGEIS)
- 20+ Year Euro Treasury Index Fund - Euro Shares (VGYETII)

I also rebalanced to 4x25 and sold some gold.

Realized price gains on stocks: €1,158.95 / Gold: €707.39
Realized losses on bonds: €526.46

No taxes, everything below the tax-free allowances

[Grinch]

Bildschirmfoto 2025-07-15 um 11.30.53.png (490.78 KiB) Viewed 186 times

[frugal]

Hi Grinch,

Nice optimization! Selling ELFW and EL4V to reduce fees and going with Vanguard’s index funds is a classic move for long-term efficiency.

Quick question though — could you share more details on the cost structure of your new funds? Specifically:

⸻

What are the annual fees and transaction costs?

1. Vanguard Global Stock Index Fund – EUR Acc (VANGEIS)

I assume you’re referring to the Vanguard Global Stock Index Fund EUR Accumulating, not traded on an exchange.
• Ongoing charges (TER): approx. 0.18%
• Buy/Sell fees:
• Direct via platforms like Vanguard or institutional accounts: often 0% entry and exit fees
• Via banks or retail brokers: may apply subscription/redemption fees, usually in the range of 0.25%–1%
• Settlement time: 1–2 days, and not as liquid as ETFs

2. Vanguard Euro Government Bond Index Fund – 20+ Years – EUR Acc (VGYETII)
• Ongoing charges (TER): approx. 0.10%
• Buy/Sell fees:
• Same model — may be free with some platforms, but can incur distribution costs or custody fees depending on your broker
• Spreads may be wider and execution slower than exchange-traded funds

⸻

Compared to your previous ETFs:

Fund / ETF TER (%) Exchange-Traded Liquidity Auto Tax Reporting
iShares MSCI World (ELFW) ~0.20 Yes High Yes
DB EUROGOV Germany 10+ (EL4V) ~0.16 Yes High Yes
Vanguard Global Index Fund (VANGEIS) ~0.18 No Slower Depends on broker
Vanguard Euro Treasury 20+ (VGYETII) ~0.10 No Slower May need manual


⸻

Tax considerations (Germany-specific):

Since these are non-ETF index funds, be aware of the following:
• If they qualify as UCITS and meet requirements, you may still benefit from the Teilfreistellung (30% tax-free portion on equity funds, 15% for mixed funds, etc.)
• However, if your broker doesn’t handle tax reporting automatically, you may have to declare gains manually and track the Vorabpauschale (preemptive tax on unrealized gains, introduced in 2018)
• Also, settlement is often T+2 or T+3, unlike real-time ETF trading

⸻

Questions for you:
• Which platform/broker are you using to access these Vanguard funds?
• Did they charge you any entry or exit fees on the switch?
• Does your platform automatically handle German investment tax law (esp. Vorabpauschale and Teilfreistellung)?
• Was liquidity or pricing transparency a concern in the switch?

⸻

Would be great to hear your experience so far, especially regarding the execution experience and costs of using these non-listed funds vs ETFs.

Cheers!

[Grinch]

My Answers in red
Quick question though — could you share more details on the cost structure of your new funds? Specifically:

What are the annual fees and transaction costs?
I Pay 0.2% each year for the Account Value

1. Vanguard Global Stock Index Fund – EUR Acc (VANGEIS)
https://www.de.vanguard/professionell/a ... nd-eur-acc

I assume you’re referring to the Vanguard Global Stock Index Fund EUR Accumulating, not traded on an exchange.
• Ongoing charges (TER): approx. 0.18% yes
• Buy/Sell fees:No fee for buying or selling
• Direct via platforms like Vanguard or institutional accounts: often 0% entry and exit fees
• Via banks or retail brokers: may apply subscription/redemption fees, usually in the range of 0.25%–1%
it is an Bank Account called Sparkasse
• Settlement time: 1–2 days, and not as liquid as ETFs
That is correct, I don't need quick bookings, buying through Vanguard is enough for me

2. Vanguard Euro Government Bond Index Fund – 20+ Years – EUR Acc (VGYETII)
The Fund is 20+ Year Euro Treasury Index Fund - Euro Shares (VGYETII)
For me, it is important, that the Rating of all Countrys are aa or aaa, so you may miss some countrys of Europe in this fund
https://www.de.vanguard/professionell/a ... nd-eur-acc

• Ongoing charges (TER): approx. 0.10%
• Buy/Sell fees: No fee for buying or selling
• Same model — may be free with some platforms, but can incur distribution costs or custody fees depending on your broker
• Spreads may be wider and execution slower than exchange-traded funds

If there is any Spread, Vanguard gives you no Data. I buy the funds at net asset value
⸻

Tax considerations (Germany-specific):

Since these are non-ETF index funds, be aware of the following:
• If they qualify as UCITS and meet requirements, you may still benefit from the Teilfreistellung (30% tax-free portion on equity funds, 15% for mixed funds, etc.)
• However, if your broker doesn’t handle tax reporting automatically, you may have to declare gains manually and track the Vorabpauschale (preemptive tax on unrealized gains, introduced in 2018)
• Also, settlement is often T+2 or T+3, unlike real-time ETF trading

There is no different between ETF or Index Fund, they are Irish UCITS⸻

Questions for you:
• Which platform/broker are you using to access these Vanguard funds?
• Did they charge you any entry or exit fees on the switch?
• Does your platform automatically handle German investment tax law (esp. Vorabpauschale and Teilfreistellung)?
• Was liquidity or pricing transparency a concern in the switch?

See my Answers between the Text
⸻

Would be great to hear your experience so far, especially regarding the execution experience and costs of using these non-listed funds vs ETFs.

Cheers!