MF Global trader sentenced to five years

[smurff]

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#story/chi ... -20130416/

The trader  also has to pay money back from his misdeeds in early 2008. Something to so with unauthorized trades that disrupted the wheat market.

This has nothing to do with Jon Corzine' s known crimes in 2011, but it's as good a start as any at preparing to clean up that mess.

On the other hand, it could be a warning of what's to come:  all the blame for the missing money at  MF Global will be laid at the feet of traders and not the boss.

[Libertarian666]

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#story/chi ... -20130416/

The trader  also has to pay money back from his misdeeds in early 2008. Something to so with unauthorized trades that disrupted the wheat market.

This has nothing to do with Jon Corzine' s known crimes in 2011, but it's as good a start as any at preparing to clean up that mess.

On the other hand, it could be a warning of what's to come:  all the blame for the missing money at  MF Global will be laid at the feet of traders and not the boss.

How cynical of you! We know that the top people always take the blame.
Just like they did when, um, er...

[rocketdog]

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#story/chi ... -20130416/

The trader  also has to pay money back from his misdeeds in early 2008. Something to so with unauthorized trades that disrupted the wheat market.

This has nothing to do with Jon Corzine' s known crimes in 2011, but it's as good a start as any at preparing to clean up that mess.

On the other hand, it could be a warning of what's to come:  all the blame for the missing money at  MF Global will be laid at the feet of traders and not the boss.

How cynical of you! We know that the top people always take the blame.
Just like they did when, um, er...

[Libertarian666]

I assume that's Truman? If so, I didn't realize that he was brought to justice for war crimes (using nuclear weapons against non-combatants). When did that happen?

[rocketdog]

I assume that's Truman? If so, I didn't realize that he was brought to justice for war crimes (using nuclear weapons against non-combatants). When did that happen?

Apparently my point was too subtle.  I was responding to Libertarian666 who implied that the top people never take the blame.  Truman famously put a sign on his desk that read, "The Buck Stops Here!", meaning he could not pass the blame onto anyone else.

[MediumTex]

I assume that's Truman? If so, I didn't realize that he was brought to justice for war crimes (using nuclear weapons against non-combatants). When did that happen?

Apparently my point was too subtle.  I was responding to Libertarian666 who implied that the top people never take the blame.  Truman famously put a sign on his desk that read, "The Buck Stops Here!", meaning he could not pass the blame onto anyone else.

I got the point (and it's mostly a good one when it comes to Truman), but it occurred to me as well that Truman was never really held accountable for ordering nuclear attacks on civilian populations.

History seems to have mostly glossed over the whole Japanese nuclear weapons incident, but it always strikes me as incredibly hypocritical for the U.S. to act so indignant about other countries and nuclear weapons when we're the only ones who have ever used them, and we used them on civilian populations to boot.

I've been slowly plowing through David McCullough's Truman biography for months and Truman comes across as a very decent, likeable, and hardworking man, but a man who was in way over his head in many areas, including the economy and foreign policy.

[Libertarian666]

I assume that's Truman? If so, I didn't realize that he was brought to justice for war crimes (using nuclear weapons against non-combatants). When did that happen?

Apparently my point was too subtle.  I was responding to Libertarian666 who implied that the top people never take the blame.  Truman famously put a sign on his desk that read, "The Buck Stops Here!", meaning he could not pass the blame onto anyone else.

No, your point was not too subtle. My point, on the other hand, was that putting a sign on your desk saying "The Buck Stops Here" does not mean that you will in fact be held responsible for your actions, which in the case of Truman would have meant being tried and convicted as a war criminal. Since that did not happen, obviously the sign did not mean what you think it meant.

[rocketdog]

I have no opinion either way on Truman's actions.  I try not to judge past actions according to current sensibilities.  Hopefully we learn from the past and don't repeat the same mistakes. 

A decision was made to try and end the war and save more lives in the long run by overwhelming the enemy.  We even warned them we had such a weapon but they refused to believe us, even after we dropped the first bomb.  So I suppose you could place some of the blame for the bombings on the Japanese gov't for their failure to spare their own people. 

Pretty much every war has involved civilian casualties, including the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  So if I follow your logic then all those presidents are guilty of war crimes as well, since they are the Commander in Chief and are responsible for the repercussions of any war that is waged upon their command. 

[MediumTex]

As a matter of convention [right or wrong], war criminals are only tried and found guilty if they are on the losing side.

"War criminal" is sort of code for "you lost".

[Libertarian666]

As a matter of convention [right or wrong], war criminals are only tried and found guilty if they are on the losing side.

It's clearly wrong morally, but the winners get a pass because no one can enforce any consequences on them.

Which of course was my point in the first place.

This is also one of the main reasons I'm a self-governmentalist, not a statist of any persuasion.

[KevinW]

It's clearly wrong morally, but the winners get a pass because no one can enforce any consequences on them.

That's pretty much the whole reason nations start wars, right? To be able to get away with something that isn't allowed?

[MediumTex]

This is also one of the main reasons I'm a self-governmentalist, not a statist of any persuasion.

Since Rush's Geddy Lee is a bit hard to understand as he sings, the lyrics to "Tom Sawyer" are below.

If you haven't read them before, you might take a look.

Your posts reminded me of them.

A modern-day warrior
Mean mean stride,
Today's Tom Sawyer
Mean mean pride.

Though his mind is not for rent,
Don't put him down as arrogant.
His reserve, a quiet defense,
Riding out the day's events.
The river

And what you say about his company
Is what you say about society.
Catch the mist, catch the myth
Catch the mystery, catch the drift.

The world is, the world is,
Love and life are deep,
Maybe as his eyes are wide.

Today's Tom Sawyer,
He gets high on you,
And the space he invades
He gets by on you.

No, his mind is not for rent
To any god or government.
Always hopeful, yet discontent,
He knows changes aren't permanent,
But change is.

And what you say about his company
Is what you say about society.
Catch the witness, catch the wit,
Catch the spirit, catch the spit.

The world is, the world is,
Love and life are deep,
Maybe as his skies are wide.

Exit the warrior,
Today's Tom Sawyer,
He gets high on you,
And the energy you trade,
He gets right on to the friction of the day.

[rocketdog]

As a matter of convention [right or wrong], war criminals are only tried and found guilty if they are on the losing side.

"War criminal" is sort of code for "you lost".

And as it's been said before, the history books are written by the winners.  Something to keep in mind whenever you learn about history: more often than not you're only hearing one side of the story.