Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by MediumTex »

Apparently, there may be something to Rachel Jeantel's suspicion that Zimmerman was a gay rapist.

It looks like there are a couple of previously undisclosed photos from the night Martin was killed that the defense attempted to suppress suggesting that Zimmerman may not have been the only one pursuing Martin.

I am posting one of the photos farther down so that anyone who doesn't want to look can move to a different window.  I will remove the photo if anyone finds it too disturbing
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(That's Zimmerman on the second from the right.)
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by MediumTex »

TennPaGa wrote:
MediumTex wrote: I am posting one of the photos farther down so that anyone who doesn't want to look can move to a different window.  I will remove the photo if anyone finds it too disturbing
Why, MT?

Eh?
Because there is that mischievous boy in me that I cannot seem to completely get rid of no matter how hard I try.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by Pointedstick »

This is getting weirder and weirder. Take a look at this brief clip of Jeantel explaining her "gay rapist" theory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... ZlMg3tgQ7M

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... apist.html
Rachel Jeantel wrote: Yes. Definitely after I say may be a rapist, for every boy, for every man, every -- who's not that kind of way, seeing a grown man following them, would they be creep out? So you have to take it -- as a parent, when you tell your child, when you see a grown person following you, run away, and all that.

Would you go stand there? You going to tell your child stand there? If you tell your child stand there, we're going to see your child on the news for missing person.

[…]

People need to understand, he didn't want that creepy ass cracka going to his father or girlfriend's house to go get -- mind you, his little brother is there. Mind you I told you, I told Trayvon, [Zimmerman] might have been a rapist.

It looks like Rachel Jeantel was trying to convince Martin that Zimmerman was a gay pervert who was going to rape him or his little brother. She urged him not to go home to his father's girlfriend's house as originally planned because Martin's little brother was there, and she didn't want him put at risk.

If there's any "profiling" here it looks like this young woman is an anti-gay bigot whose urgings contributed to her friend committing a hate crime. She had never seen Zimmerman, never knew anything about the situation save for what she was being told over the phone. All she knew was that a man was following her friend and she immediately assumed, "he might be a gay sexual predator who wants to rape you or your little brother."

The idea that Martin believed her and beat Zimmerman up out of homophobia is seeming like a real possibility to me. It blows my mind that this is just being ignored. Then again maybe it makes perfect sense, because Martin is supposed to be an innocent victim of racism, not a homophobic hate criminal.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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I brightened my sig line because the words are truer when applied to the Zimmerman case coverage than in any story I think I have ever followed.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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This also makes emotional sense to me given the enormous level of homophobia I encountered in the African-American community a few years ago when I was volunteering at an extra-curricular center whose enrollees were mostly black. There was just this deathly fear of homosexuality and incredible levels of rage against perceived gay people. These were kids maybe 7 or 8 years old already talking about murdering gay people, doing just deplorable things to them.

At the time, I had a less masculine look and wore a ponytail, and I remember this one kid in particular who would call me gay and say just the most awful things to me. This one time he said that some night while I was sleeping, he was going to sneak into my bedroom, staple my ears to the headboard, and shoot me in the head.

Needless to say, I didn't last too much longer at that place. But it left a real impression on me. I wonder where that kid is now. Probably in jail somewhere. :(
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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The prosecution apparently failed to "humanize" Trayvon Martin.  This would have been hard to do, though, considering that the prosecution didn't want any evidence from Martin's life to be entered into evidence.
SANFORD, Fla. — A televised interview of Juror B-37 reveals her ease in relating to George Zimmerman and state prosecutors' failure to humanize Trayvon Martin, some legal experts said.

The juror told CNN's Anderson Cooper that Zimmerman was "a man whose heart was in the right place," but he went too far and did not use good judgment. She also said she thought Trayvon threw the first punch and attacked Zimmerman — and that Zimmerman had the right to shoot the teen. The juror's statements illustrate her empathy for Zimmerman and her emotional and demographic disconnect with Trayvon, the experts said.
WTF?

The juror's conclusion that Martin attacked Zimmerman means that she had an "emotional and demographic disconnect with Trayvon"?

What kind of "expert" said that?  Clearly not an expert on the effect of sidewalks on human skulls.
"She (Juror B-37) was more empathic to the living than the dead," said Susan Constantine, a jury consultant and body language expert who attended Zimmerman's trial regularly. "The state really needed to work with her. I would have done almost a memorial about Trayvon Martin. I would have shown these are the things he's not going to be able to do: He'll never have a family or he'll never see his graduation."
An honest memorial about Martin would not have made him more sympathetic to most jurors. That's ridiculous. 

What would you say in such a memorial?  That because of Zimmerman's actions Martin will now never get to experience lifting weights in the prison yard?

Martin MIGHT have turned his life around and stopped getting high every day, burglarizing people's houses and attacking people, but at the time of his death the trajectory his life made unfortunate future scenarios for Martin likely, not because he was an especially bad kid, but simply because poor black kids in Miami from single parent homes who fall into rough crowds just don't have bright future prospects in most cases.
Juror B-37 is a middle-aged white woman who is the daughter of an Air Force captain and has been married to a space industry attorney for 20 years. She has two children in their 20s, and works in a management position.

On Monday, an agent announced that B-37 would write book about the trial. On Tuesday, B-37 announced that she had changed her mind.

On CNN, she said she thinks the shooting was not racially motivated and that Zimmerman would have reacted the same way to someone of any race.

She added that Trayvon calling Zimmerman a "creepy a-- cracker," wasn't racial. "I think it's just everyday life, the type of life that they live, and how they're living, in the environment that they're living in," Juror B-37 told Cooper.
"Creepy-ass cracker" isn't racial, but "fucking punk" is (according to the prosecution).

When viewed through Rachel Jeantel's homophobic filter, the term "creepy-ass cracker" takes on a whole new meeting, as in "creepy ass-cracker."  Yuck.
Zimmerman did have the right to carry his pistol, but he should have stayed in his car that night and not have gotten out to follow Trayvon, the juror said.
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.”?

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Along with the state's failure to bring Trayvon to life, some experts said Juror B-37 also used assumptions in coming to her conclusion.

Rachel Jeantel, 19, was on the phone with Trayvon moments before he was killed. The teen said Trayvon was followed by Zimmerman and that the young man tried to get away but couldn't lose Zimmerman.

During Jeantel's at times contentious testimony, defense attorney Don West, the court reporter and the jury struggled to hear and understand her.

On Monday, Juror B-37 said she too had problems understanding Jeantel.

"She (Jeantel) just didn't want to be there, and she was embarrassed by being there, because of her education and her communication skills, that she just wasn't a good witness," the juror said.
Really?

If that's true then why did she go on Piers Morgan's show?  That makes no sense to me.
Jules Epstein, a law professor at Widener University School of Law in Wilmington, Del., said those comments show demographic differences may have been important.

"The juror's comments about Rachel Jeantel typecast her as an inarticulate person," Epstein said. "This juror's comments show where the issue of race and racial perceptions may have come into play."
[headslap...headslap...headslap]

The juror's comments didn't typecast Jeantel as an inarticulate person, the juror's comments were simply an observation that she was an inarticulate person.  No one who heard her testify said anything except that she was inarticulate, including the prosecution.  Were they all racists too?
Jeantel, who is black, speaks three languages, Haitian Creole, Spanish and English. Constantine said those facts showed she was a bright young woman who was "profiled" by Juror B-37.
They are saying that the jurors acquitted Zimmerman because the jurors are racists too?  That's so cynical and cheap.
The juror said the fact that lead investigator Christopher Serino, a Sanford police officer, thought Zimmerman was telling the truth weighed in her decision. Judge Nelson instructed jurors to disregard that statement and not consider it in their verdict following a motion by the state.

Still, the jury thought it was important.

"People trust police officers over and above family and friends," Constantine said, adding the juror probably forgot she wasn't supposed to weigh Serino's opinion.
I predict that the prosecution will appeal the nonguilty verdict based upon this comment.
When the verdict was read, Juror B-37 looked confident about her decision. At least one juror looked upset and several others looked serious and contemplative.

Juror B-37 being the first juror to speak isn't a big surprise to Constantine. The body language expert said the juror during individual questioning was expressive, spoke with her hands, and was somewhat eccentric. During the trial, Juror B-37 was much more reserved, took fewer notes than the other jurors, and paid a lot of attention to witnesses, Constantine said.

During pre-trial testimony questioning, Juror B-37 said she had several pets including a parrot whose cage she lined with newspapers.
And everyone knows that racist jurors who have multiple pets and are expressive are eccentric.  Just another subtle dig at the legitimacy of the jury's decision.
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Here's some information about a possible use of Skittles you probably never heard about anywhere else.

(Comes from an excellent video found here http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... F-Ax5E8EJc)

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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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At the risk of demonizing Rachel Jeantel a bit (which might be okay to do if she turns out to be a homophobic racist who subtly encouraged Martin to attack Zimmerman, leading to Martin's death), I noticed that she looks a bit like the offspring of Jabba the Hutt and Precious.

Tell me if you disagree.

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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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Am I crazy? I just don't get why so many people have such dramatically false impressions in this case. Is it actually me who has the false impressions? Am I the one who's wrong?

Any time I find myself holding a distinctly minority position I have to go through this mental routine to make sure I'm actually on the right track.

So now I'm someone who knows everything that the real Pointedstick knows, but who believes Zimmerman is a murderer and Martin is an innocent victim. Let's see, how could I arrive at that conclusion?

Okay, so let's do this.

[Begin stream of consciousness]

Well, Martin's clearly going down the wrong path. The drug use, the school suspension, etc. But again none of that matters if Zimmerman's shot was in self-defense. So let's work backwards. Since I know what Zimmerman must be a murderer, that means that the fight that resulted in serious injuries to Zimmerman must have been justified; Martin had to be defending himself. That means that either Zimmerman struck first, or deliberately provoked Martin into attacking him with the express purpose of shooting him and claiming self-defense.

But that doesn't sound like Zimmerman. Frankly, he doesn't seem bright or cunning enough for that. More likely he was mad and did something stupid. Now, in support of that, Zimmerman has a history of violent outbursts, even if it's a long-ago history. So it's possible that he threw the first punch. But why would he have done that? Maybe he was mad. Maybe he fancied himself a cop, or a hero protecting his neighborhood from this young thug. Now it's true that Martin was a bit of a thug, but that doesn't mean it's open season on you.

So Zimmerman asks, "What are you doing here?" and moves toward Martin, Martin puts up his hands, Zimmerman sees what he sees as an agressive move and grabs Martin, and Martin freaks out and slugs Zimmerman and he goes down.

Hmm, but that doesn't work since as soon as Zimmerman is down, the threat is over and Martin can't continue to attack without being the agressor of a new conflict.

So… Zimmerman grabs Martin, and Martin hits him, and Zimmerman hits back, but he's so clumsy that he trips and falls on the ground. He's a really lousy fighter and doesn't even put a mark on Martin… no wait, now we're back to him being no real threat and Martin not being in the danger we need for him to be justified in striking Zimmerman's head against the concrete.

Okay. So somehow Martin has to feel that his life is in danger for the type of attack that he used against Zimmerman to fly legally. This is tough because before Zimmerman shoots him, it's pretty clear that Zimmerman is a terrible fighter. He can't put a single mark on Martin. So what's Martin so afraid of?

I dunno, this is looking bad for Martin. In order for Martin to be justified deploying a lethal attack against Zimmerman, he had to feel that his life was in danger. All indications are that George Zimmerman was a terrible fighter. Even if Zimmerman hits first, once it becomes clear that he's no real threat, Martin can't kill him. So Martin had to feel that Zimmerman was a real threat.

Maybe it was when Martin saw Zimmerman's gun. They're tussling around when Martin catches sight of Zimmerman's gun and thinks to himself, "oh shit. This guy might shoot me if he feels like he's losing the fight!"  He can't break off the fight and run because Zimmerman might shoot him. So he resolves to kill Zimmerman before he can deploy his weapon. That's not unreasonable if Zimmerman started the fight. Martin has no idea how far Zimmerman is willing to go.

Now it's Zimmerman's fault for starting a fight with the ability to escalate it to lethal levels with his concealed weapon.

Okay, so this is plausible. If Zimmerman started the fight while carrying a concealed weapon, it's his fault because his actions and state of being armed could cause the kind of alarm and panic that could lead someone to reasonably believe that he was in imminent mortal danger.

So the real in this scenario question is, did Zimmerman start the fight?

[End stream of consciousness]

Does this sound reasonable? Now, if so, how can we figure out if Zimmerman started the fight?
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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What a surprise. All the jurors are racist. Everybody's racist! 

On a serious note, MT, are you aware of any precedent for the procecutors to challenge the acquittal without violating double jeopardy?  I didn't realize acquittals were subject to challenge in the U.S. like they are in places like Italy.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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RuralEngineer wrote: What a surprise. All the jurors are racist. Everybody's racist! 

On a serious note, MT, are you aware of any precedent for the procecutors to challenge the acquittal without violating double jeopardy?  I didn't realize acquittals were subject to challenge in the U.S. like they are in places like Italy.
To my knowledge, not really.

I was just kidding mostly.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by MediumTex »

Pointedstick,

Part of the reason I am posting so many pot-stirring posts on this topic is that I feel like I must be missing something as well.

I keep thinking to myself "How can so many people buy this load of crap that the media is selling?"

I imagine a new member stepping up and laying out the state's logic powerfully and the way that that evidence-based logic leads to the inevitable and irrefutable conclusion that Zimmerman is a murderer.  So far we've only had moda making a valiant effort, but it seems to ultimately dissolve into an ethereal cloud of speculation and projection of preconceived notions that doesn't begin to dislodge a presumption of innocence.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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If you want to get to know Angela Corey, the leader of the Zimmerman witch hunt, below is a story discussing Alan Dershowitz's arguments for why she should be disbarred and potentially charged with a crime related to her handling of the Zimmerman case.

LINK

Meet your "innocent citizen safari" guide:

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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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Stevie Wonder announced that he would not perform in Florida until its stand your ground law is repealed, even though repealing it would not have affected the Zimmerman case or verdict.

In related news, it looks like Jeantel's Piers Morgan show appearance was just the first of many media appearances she will be making.  So much for the "she didn't want all this attention" line of thought.

I'm assuming that Jeantel's is getting $1,000-$5,000 per appearance, so she is making Martin's death profitable for her, as Martin's parents are as well, having already settled with the HOA for what I assume is something close to the limit on the HOA's liability policy.  The media has also, of course, made a fortune on advertising for programming provided at essentially no cost to them.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by dualstow »

MediumTex wrote: Stevie Wonder announced that he would not perform in Florida until its stand your ground law is repealed, even though repealing it would not have affected the Zimmerman case or verdict.
Sounds like blind justice.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by Pointedstick »

dualstow wrote:
MediumTex wrote: Stevie Wonder announced that he would not perform in Florida until its stand your ground law is repealed, even though repealing it would not have affected the Zimmerman case or verdict.
Sounds like blind justice.
Maybe he got the idea from the attorney general: http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/16/politics/ ... ?hpt=hp_t2

You know, the guy whose job it is to understand laws.


sigh.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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So to continue my rambling devil's advocate monologue...

Martin could possibly have legitimately feared for his life after seeing Zimmerman's gun if Zimmerman started the conflict. So basically, as a believer that Zimmerman's a murderer, my only hope is this narrow circumstance where Zimmerman starts a physical fight, begins losing, and then accidentally exposes his gun, causing Martin to panic, in fear for his life, whereupon he arrives at the conclusion that he needs to disable or disarm the armed man who attacked him by any means possible. That's the only case I can imagine where Martin's brutal attack on Zimmerman is justified in light of Zimmerman's total failure to inflict any damage on Martin before using his gun.

This is actually borne out by Zimmerman's own story, in which Martin increases the effectiveness of his attack upon seeing Zimmerman's firearm, saying, "You're going to die tonight" and possibly making a move toward it. These things could be justified if Martin was in a panic over the gun after Zimmerman started the fight and he really thought he was about to be shot to death by a random stranger who started a fight with him for no good reason.

But for this to work, we need some actual evidence that Zimmerman started the fight. Following him isn't it. Asking him "What are you doing here?" isn't it. Telling the 911 dispatcher, "Fucking punks" or "These assholes always get away" isn't it. Racially profiling him isn't it. Zimmerman had to make it physical first, by hitting Martin, pushing him, grabbing him, spitting on him, or something like that.

Unfortunately, there's just no evidence of this. There wasn't any video footage of the fight, and Martin's cell phone wasn't able record anything more distinct than the generic sounds of a struggle in the rain. No witnesses observed the start of the fight, only its conclusion.

So now I have to be frustrated by the lack of evidence to suggest that Zimmerman made it physical, which is I guess where moda is at.

The thing is, if there's one single narrow version of the events which makes Martin the victim, and it requires evidence of Zimmerman's behavior that doesn't exist, then that's a tough position to be in, because every other version of the events makes Martin the aggressor and it's a pretty legit case of self defense. Martin was clearly overwhelming Zimmerman; he was beating the shit out of him; he had the opportunity to disengage and run; he had started the verbal confrontation, and so on and so forth.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

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I was getting my car repaired this afternoon and CNN was on in the waiting area.  As I was waiting the shop manager (a white guy with a surfer-style mop top) came in there and we watched the coverage for a bit and he said something about it being a wild story.  I told him that I thought so too, and that it was a shame that people were wanting to make it be about race when there wasn't much evidence that race had anything to do with Zimmerman following Martin or Martin attacking Zimmerman.

He asked me what I meant by Martin attacking Zimmerman and I told him that if there were no marks on Martin prior to the shooting and Zimmerman had a broken nose and "sidewalk fatigue" to the back of his head, that looked more like an attack to me than a fight.  He said he didn't know about all of that, just that Zimmerman had shot the kid while he was walking home.

He was obviously not up on the details of the story, so I was going to just let the topic drop, but then he said something REALLY interesting.  He told me that his ex-wife was black and they had a son who looked more black than white, and he wondered what he was supposed to tell his son about how to handle a situation like that.  He said if he told his son to run, it would look like he was doing something wrong, and if he told him to answer the man's questions he would be violating the "don't talk to strangers" rule.  He then said that he also felt like his son should have the right to defend himself if he felt threatened without being killed.  As we talked I began to see where he was coming from, not that I found his perspective persuasive, but I at least started to understand it, and thereby understand the way a lot of people may be feeling without being forced to conclude that they are either incredibly cynical or incredibly stupid.

Here is what I believe led him to his views:

1. He simply didn't know the details of the story.  Failing to follow the details of a news story is forgivable.  After all, it's mostly entertainment anyway.  He got the major points, but was not aware of the finer points that made the case different from the way it might have at first appeared.  Due to the way the story was initially reported, with pictures of a 12 year old Martin being distributed, along with the reports that Martin had been "shot in the back", he had simply assumed that the media was providing him with more or less accurate information, and the basics of the case (i.e., overzealous neighborhood watch person racially profiles very young black male and then murders him in cold blood) formed a strong framework in his mind for what had occurred that simply didn't yield to later clarifications.

2. He had already seen his son exposed to a lot of poor treatment based upon the way he looked, and it bothered him.  The idea that simply walking home would cause someone to want to confront and threaten his son triggered an emotional response that wasn't entirely rational, but was consistent with prior experiences of discrimination (one of his son's 6th grade teachers told him that there was still time to keep his son out of prison).

The more we talked, the more I felt that I understood the internal logic that had led him to his position, and as I grasped the thought process that led him to his perspective, I realized how "sticky" its framework was to the initial false reports and how we could have talked for hours and he would still be saying "but a kid ought to be able to walk home without worrying about getting shot."

I don't want to trivialize the perspective I am describing above, because I think it's the way a lot of people feel, and I really don't know how you changes the minds of people who think this way, even if they are generally pretty reasonable people.  It's very frustrating.

Every time I mentioned Martin attacking Zimmerman, the guy just looked at me like "Do you really expect me to believe that this 12 year old kid attacked a full grown man who was carrying a gun?"

To get through to him (and people who think like him), it would probably be necessary to:

1. Teach them to assume that every single thing the media tells them is false, and to just enjoy that rare case where a report is actually accurate.

2. Make them understand that the media's agenda is not to inform, but rather to agitate, titillate and obfuscate.  It's hard to fully internalize this concept when you are exposed to such skilled liars when you tune into news programming.

3. Make them understand that nothing the government tells them should be taken at face value.  Many of these people already feel this way about the police, but they need to expand it to cover all politicians (including prosecutors) as well.

4. While black people have gotten plenty of harsh treatment along the way, sometimes black people really have committed crimes and they aren't being accused because of racism or any other bad motive--it's simply that in a particular case it may be true that a black person was the one who committed a crime.  If you are accustomed to believing that the police are 100% against you, it can be hard to recognize in a given case that a black person really is guilty.  The O.J. Simpson case was a great example of this.  While Mark Fuhrman was the exact kind of racist thuggy cop that so many people in L.A. had learned to hate, it didn't mean that O.J. Simpson hadn't murdered two people.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by Pointedstick »

In response to  the eminently reasonable statement "but your kid ought to be able to walk home without worrying about getting shot!" I would respond that to do that, your kid needs to avoid getting in fights with strangers, even if they started them. If somebody rubs your kid the wrong way, he or she needs to get AWAY from them, not move toward them and verbally confront them ("why are you following me?"). And while defensive fighting may be justifiable from a moral angle, flight is usually preferable if at all possible when the goal is preserving life and limb. Better to be alive than right.

I did a lot of walking to and from home as a kid and managed to not get shot. Probably the closest I ever came to injury while "walking around minding my own business"--as the narrative is going with this case--was one time when a bunch of skinhead-looking types observed me picking my nose across the street and yelled, "hey look at the faggot! Let's get him!" and started toward me. I ran as fast as my little 13 year-old legs would carry me and managed to escape intact.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by MediumTex »

I still just can't get over the idea that Angela Corey and her minions in the Florida state attorney's office were wanting to send Zimmerman to prison for life for what happened the night Martin was killed.

Life.  In prison.  For shooting a guy who broke your nose and beat your head on a sidewalk and you never touched him in any way prior to shooting him in self-defense.

Life in prison.

Image

Does that sound like justice?  It just sounds cruel, sadistic and heartless to me to try to do that to someone, and then after the jury acquits him to go on television and continue to call him a murderer.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by Pointedstick »

In fact, even if you think Martin was a helpless victim, he--like Zimmerman--did a lot of things wrong and could have avoided the obviously undesirable outcome of death.

1. After establishing that Zimmerman's behavior was "creepy", he approached Zimmerman and confronted him over it verbally. Dumb dumb dumb.
2. Regardless of who started the fight, he continued to batter Zimmerman after it was clear that Zimmerman was offering little to no effective resistance.
3. He avoided disengaging and running off after Zimmerman had been rendered prone.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by Pointedstick »

MediumTex wrote: I still just can't get over the idea that Angela Corey and her minions in the Florida state attorney's office were wanting to send Zimmerman to prison for life for what happened the night Martin was killed.

Life.  In prison.  For shooting a guy who broke your nose and beat your head on a sidewalk and you never touched him in any way prior to shooting him in self-defense.

Life in prison.
Isn't that their job, though? To ruin people's lives by putting them in small concrete boxes and depriving them of freedom, intellectual stimulation, and the opportunity to be of value to society?

I mean, that's just what the entire criminal justice system exists for, right? To determine which people are deserving of this punishment and then mete it out.

In other words, she's just being a cheetah.

Perhaps a clumsy one, even. She's a cheetah who picked on a healthy gazelle rather than one that was wounded, young, or sick, and couldn't quite make the kill before being kicked in the head.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by MediumTex »

Pointedstick wrote:
MediumTex wrote: I still just can't get over the idea that Angela Corey and her minions in the Florida state attorney's office were wanting to send Zimmerman to prison for life for what happened the night Martin was killed.

Life.  In prison.  For shooting a guy who broke your nose and beat your head on a sidewalk and you never touched him in any way prior to shooting him in self-defense.

Life in prison.
Isn't that their job, though? To ruin people's lives by putting them in small concrete boxes and depriving them of freedom, intellectual stimulation, and the opportunity to be of value to society?
Yes, but it's kind of sick to do it under the guise of "seeking justice."
I mean, that's just what the entire criminal justice system exists for, right? To determine which people are deserving of this punishment and then mete it out.
Yes, but many of them are deserving of punishment.  I like the idea that there is a place to store the murderers and rapists and I like that there are prosecutors who are willing to work hard to help keep the public safe, but that's a sort of idealized vision of the way it actually works.

A prosecutor will tell you that his job is to seek justice, but in practice you will find that a prosecutor's career advancement is based upon getting convictions.  And into that space is where slugs and cockroaches like Angela Corey creep.
In other words, she's just being a cheetah.
Yes.  Cold-blooded, vicious, calculating, preying on the weak.

I wonder what a hypocritical cheetah would look like, because that's the type of cheetah she would also be.
Perhaps a clumsy one, even. She's a cheetah who picked on a healthy gazelle rather than one that was wounded, young, or sick, and couldn't quite make the kill before being kicked in the head.
And sometimes it is only through strong kicks to the head from gazelles that don't like being bothered that delusional cheetahs of that type can be brought to heel.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by MediumTex »

At some point, it will probably just be me and Pointedstick agreeing with one another, but venting still makes me feel better.

Here is the latest from the L.A. Times, with my comments:
WASHINGTON — George Zimmerman is unlikely to face federal charges for killing black teenager Trayvon Martin because it would be difficult to prove he acted out of racial bias, Justice Department officials said Tuesday.
Considering that there was no evidence that he acted out of racial bias, yes, that would be difficult to prove.
Four years ago, Congress adopted a stronger federal hate crimes act to empower federal prosecutors to go after violent crimes of bias. Since then, the Obama administration has won convictions against more than 140 defendants who chose their victims because they were gay, disabled or members of racial or religious minorities.

But a successful federal prosecution of Zimmerman would require clear evidence that he set out to attack the unarmed Martin because he was black.
That's true, but if Martin had succeeded in killing Zimmerman the federal government would have an outstanding hate crime case against him, since the prosecution's own star witness testified that Martin used a racial slur in referring to Martin and was apparently motivated to attack him, in part, based upon his perception that Zimmerman was homosexual.
Although that is exactly what many Americans see in the fatal shooting of the 17-year-old, it can be very hard to prove in court, legal experts said. So far, prosecutors have not shown evidence that Zimmerman acted out of racial bias.
Don't you think if there was any evidence, the prosecutors would have shown it?  There isn't any.

By using "so far", the story makes it sound like the prosecutors might still come up with some evidence of racial bias even though the trial is over.
"I'd be very, very surprised if we took it," said one federal civil rights prosecutor, speaking anonymously because no decision had been made. "It's a very tough, tough case to sell" because of the lack of witnesses.
...and because of  the lack of any evidence that any racial bias was present in anyone except for Martin.
"The difficult element would be proving racial motivation beyond a reasonable doubt," said University of Michigan law professor Samuel Bagenstos, a former civil rights attorney in the Obama administration. "In most of these [hate crime] cases, you have someone who had made racial statements or you have a group who goes looking to attack a person based on their race."
You have that in this case, and I'm pretty sure you could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, but only if you were talking about Martin.
But in the confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin, "no one else was there who could testify about the motivation," he said.
Yes there is: Rachel Jeantel.  She could testify about Martin's motivation in attacking Zimmerman.
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Re: Judge's comments to Zimmerman--any lawyers care to comment?

Post by dualstow »

Wall St Journal video -> Opinion: Why Are Black Leaders Exploiting Trayvon Martin?
http://is.gd/Zue65N

That was the video, and here's the written piece:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 47030.html?
Last edited by dualstow on Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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