Shower thoughts: country music created the modern conservative party

[doodle]

I guess this a typical question of does art imitate life or does life imitate art. Listening to country music station while showering this morning the lyrical imagery pairing nostalgic images of better simpler times with simpler problems and what not made me wonder how much this type of music convinces people that this place they sing about in these songs used to exist. There is so much american mystique that is wrapped up into the conservative movement it seems to me...people pining for this imaginary place that country singers sing about. If it weren't for the damn liberals we would all be living the dream.

[pmward]

It's cyclical. Life influences art, and then art influences life. Music has always been a very important piece of culture. Country music happens to be the soundtrack of modern conservative culture.

[I Shrugged]

What's the soundtrack of libertarianism?

[doodle]

What's the soundtrack of libertarianism?

That might be libertarianisms issue...it's too cerebral and nerdy. It's needs a PR makeover

[doodle]

I also think the political left needs a PR makeover...not since the 60s or 70s has there really been a strong cultural movement that embodied the ethos of the progressive left. One could look at springsteen as perhaps a later attempt but most of the progressive music since the 80s has really not been able to embody a message that would inspire popular political action or inspire a movement in support of the everyday workingman. In fact it's just the opposite...it's mostly been about glorifying ridiculous bling, money, cars, women etc .

[pmward]

I also think the political left needs a PR makeover...not since the 60s or 70s has there really been a strong cultural movement that embodied the ethos of the progressive left. One could look at springsteen as perhaps a later attempt but most of the progressive music since the 80s has really not been able to embody a message that would inspire popular political action or inspire a movement in support of the everyday workingman. In fact it's just the opposite...it's mostly been about glorifying ridiculous bling, money, cars, women etc .

I would say the grunge/alternative culture in the early 90s was very important to liberal culture. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Rage Against the Machine specifically were all extremely popular liberal activist artists. Reading the following on the liner of Nirvana's Incesticide CD back in the day stood out to me: "If any of you, in any way, hate homosexuals, people of a different color, or women, please do this one favor for us — leave us the fuck alone. Don’t come to our shows and don’t buy our records."

But yeah, these days there really isn't any flag bearer in the music industry for modern liberal culture. I had to go back to the early 90s to find the last liberal music movement. There is a modern liberal culture, as always liberal culture tends to follow the young generation, but music isn't really as important to young people these days as it was to earlier young generations. These days social media is the culturally significant place that these ideas spread.

The hippie culture in the 1960s was kind of the start of the modern liberal culture. The early 90's grunge movement kind of picked up the flag where they left it for a few years. Younger generations now are picking up the flag where the early 90s grunge movement left off. It's all a part of the same movement though. All these boomers these days that hate the "liberal millennials" are the very people that planted the seed when they were young that they now hate as they are old. Interestingly, these liberal cultural movements seem to happen about every 25-30 years like clockwork.

[pp4me]

A classic of the genre by Merle Haggard - Okie from Muskogee ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68cbjlL ... e=emb_logo

We used to get high and laugh our asses off at this song.

Who knew I would grow up to be a conservative?

[pp4me]

And I've always thought of this song by John Lennon as a classic for liberals .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6svOHFSAH8

[yankees60]

And I've always thought of this song by John Lennon as a classic for liberals .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6svOHFSAH8

From the first time I heard it when I came out I've always thought it to be a sappy, dreamy, unrealistic song. The song, i.e., the music & vocals is actually good. Lyrics not so great. Same with Work Class Hero.

Especially in the light of the message in both songs which were far, far, far from the highly privileged life that Lennon lived.

Vinny

[pp4me]

And I've always thought of this song by John Lennon as a classic for liberals .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6svOHFSAH8

From the first time I heard it when I came out I've always thought it to be a sappy, dreamy, unrealistic song.

That's why I thought it was a good song for liberals.

[yankees60]

And I've always thought of this song by John Lennon as a classic for liberals .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6svOHFSAH8

From the first time I heard it when I came out I've always thought it to be a sappy, dreamy, unrealistic song.

That's why I thought it was a good song for liberals.

When they first came out I was not thinking of the liberal / conservative divide. For those two songs I would have been dividing people as either dreamers or realists. I would never have been classified as a dreamer.

Vinny

[doodle]

And I've always thought of this song by John Lennon as a classic for liberals .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6svOHFSAH8

From the first time I heard it when I came out I've always thought it to be a sappy, dreamy, unrealistic song.

That's why I thought it was a good song for liberals.

I hate the beetles and lennon in particular. I never understood their music...it always came across as goofy to me...like the musical version of Benny Hill.

That's the problem...libs have allowed themselves to be typecast as wimps. They have had horrible PR. The hippies and their music didn't come across that way....Joplin, Morrison, Hendrix, etc etc. There wasn't anything wimpy about that....

And there is great Americana music with left wing bent..Johnny Cash "Man in Black" comes to mind...alot of Springsteen or Bonnie Raitt.

The last big band that I can think of that cultivated a stronger left wing image is ironically actually a favorite of many numbnuts on the right who don't actually listen to the lyrics..... Rage Against the Machine....their message was too radical and over the top though for widespread adoption and cultivation of a movement.

Country music has done an amazing job though of embodying a spirit and ideal. It's as full of dreamy fantasy as Lennon's "Imagine" but it doesn't come across that way.

I'm curious...what political camp would people group Uncle Lucius "Keep the Wolves away" into


https://youtu.be/pYdvxBxHX2U

[yankees60]

And I've always thought of this song by John Lennon as a classic for liberals .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6svOHFSAH8

From the first time I heard it when I came out I've always thought it to be a sappy, dreamy, unrealistic song.

That's why I thought it was a good song for liberals.

I hate the beetles and lennon in particular. I never understood their music...it always came across as goofy to me...like the musical version of Benny Hill.

That's the problem...libs have allowed themselves to be typecast as wimps. They have had horrible PR. The hippies and their music didn't come across that way....Joplin, Morrison, Hendrix, etc etc. There wasn't anything wimpy about that....

And there is great Americana music with left wing bent..Johnny Cash "Man in Black" comes to mind...alot of Springsteen or Bonnie Raitt.

The last big band that I can think of that cultivated a stronger left wing image is ironically actually a favorite of many numbnuts on the right who don't actually listen to the lyrics..... Rage Against the Machine....their message was too radical and over the top though for widespread adoption and cultivation of a movement.

Country music has done an amazing job though of embodying a spirit and ideal. It's as full of dreamy fantasy as Lennon's "Imagine" but it doesn't come across that way.

I'm curious...what political camp would people group Uncle Lucius "Keep the Wolves away" into


https://youtu.be/pYdvxBxHX2U

I've always been a major, major, major Beatles fan from when I first saw them on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1964 and remain so now. Like a lot of Lennon's solo music but do not have a lot of respect for him as a musician.

And, yes to Rage Against the Machine!

How about Living Colour's Cult of Personality?

Living Colour - Cult Of Personality (Official Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0

I loved (and still do) that song from about first note I ever heard of the song.

Finally, have you listened to much Bruce Coburn?

If I Had A Rocket Launcher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPqPOkK_gzU

But, in general, I never listen to songs for their lyrics. The music always has to first be there for me. If I like the lyrics that is a bonus. However, great lyrics will never rescue a song with bad music. It's called music, not lyrics.

Vinny

[pp4me]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

[yankees60]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

I'm a big-time music person and other than associating country music as attracting those of a certain political leaning have never otherwise associated any other music with any other political leanings.

However, I have met a fair amount of musicians. And, I believe that the vast majority of them are liberal. Which I always attributed to their lifestyle causing them to experience a lot more than what the typical person experiences. For example, there was integration and acceptance of blacks in the music world both to far greater degree and much earlier than in the rest of our country.

Vinny

[pmward]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

I'm a big-time music person and other than associating country music as attracting those of a certain political leaning have never otherwise associated any other music with any other political leanings.

However, I have met a fair amount of musicians. And, I believe that the vast majority of them are liberal. Which I always attributed to their lifestyle causing them to experience a lot more than what the typical person experiences. For example, there was integration and acceptance of blacks in the music world both to far greater degree and much earlier than in the rest of our country.

Vinny

Generally speaking, creatives tend to be liberal. As such themes in music, art, film, fictional books, TV, video games, etc tend to have very liberal undertones.

[yankees60]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

I'm a big-time music person and other than associating country music as attracting those of a certain political leaning have never otherwise associated any other music with any other political leanings.

However, I have met a fair amount of musicians. And, I believe that the vast majority of them are liberal. Which I always attributed to their lifestyle causing them to experience a lot more than what the typical person experiences. For example, there was integration and acceptance of blacks in the music world both to far greater degree and much earlier than in the rest of our country.

Vinny

Generally speaking, creatives tend to be liberal. As such themes in music, art, film, fictional books, TV, video games, etc tend to have very liberal undertones.

If what you say is true where is the cause and effect of being creative and then being liberal or vice versa?

VInny

[pmward]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

I'm a big-time music person and other than associating country music as attracting those of a certain political leaning have never otherwise associated any other music with any other political leanings.

However, I have met a fair amount of musicians. And, I believe that the vast majority of them are liberal. Which I always attributed to their lifestyle causing them to experience a lot more than what the typical person experiences. For example, there was integration and acceptance of blacks in the music world both to far greater degree and much earlier than in the rest of our country.

Vinny

Generally speaking, creatives tend to be liberal. As such themes in music, art, film, fictional books, TV, video games, etc tend to have very liberal undertones.

If what you say is true where is the cause and effect of being creative and then being liberal or vice versa?

VInny

It's related to personality type. Creative people tend to be more on the "feeling" and "sensing" spectrums in a Myers-Briggs model. People on the feeling and sensing spectrums tend to be very compassionate, empathetic, and caring. They tend to value the whole over the self. This is really the root context of the liberal mind.

[yankees60]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

I'm a big-time music person and other than associating country music as attracting those of a certain political leaning have never otherwise associated any other music with any other political leanings.

However, I have met a fair amount of musicians. And, I believe that the vast majority of them are liberal. Which I always attributed to their lifestyle causing them to experience a lot more than what the typical person experiences. For example, there was integration and acceptance of blacks in the music world both to far greater degree and much earlier than in the rest of our country.

Vinny

Generally speaking, creatives tend to be liberal. As such themes in music, art, film, fictional books, TV, video games, etc tend to have very liberal undertones.

If what you say is true where is the cause and effect of being creative and then being liberal or vice versa?

VInny

It's related to personality type. Creative people tend to be more on the "feeling" and "sensing" spectrums in a Myers-Briggs model. People on the feeling and sensing spectrums tend to be very compassionate, empathetic, and caring. They tend to value the whole over the self. This is really the root context of the liberal mind.

In the Myers-Briggs model I am high on both the "thinking" and "sensing". On the latter is is almost 100%, no intuition.

My thought, though, would have been that creative people by definition would be the complete opposite to me on the sensing / intuitive spectrum. Almost all intuition. They don't do things in a step-by-step fashion like I do. Things just come to them.

Vinny

[pmward]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

I'm a big-time music person and other than associating country music as attracting those of a certain political leaning have never otherwise associated any other music with any other political leanings.

However, I have met a fair amount of musicians. And, I believe that the vast majority of them are liberal. Which I always attributed to their lifestyle causing them to experience a lot more than what the typical person experiences. For example, there was integration and acceptance of blacks in the music world both to far greater degree and much earlier than in the rest of our country.

Vinny

Generally speaking, creatives tend to be liberal. As such themes in music, art, film, fictional books, TV, video games, etc tend to have very liberal undertones.

If what you say is true where is the cause and effect of being creative and then being liberal or vice versa?

VInny

It's related to personality type. Creative people tend to be more on the "feeling" and "sensing" spectrums in a Myers-Briggs model. People on the feeling and sensing spectrums tend to be very compassionate, empathetic, and caring. They tend to value the whole over the self. This is really the root context of the liberal mind.

In the Myers-Briggs model I am high on both the "thinking" and "sensing". On the latter is is almost 100%, no intuition.

My thought, though, would have been that creative people by definition would be the complete opposite to me on the sensing / intuitive spectrum. Almost all intuition. They don't do things in a step-by-step fashion like I do. Things just come to them.

Vinny

I'm speaking in kind of generalizations here, so there are definitely exceptions to the rule. But yeah, creatives are generally speaking are more sensing than intuitive. But these things also are not binary, they are a spectrum. So someone can be N dominant, but still have a lot of S tendencies for instance. That one would not be me, I'm an extreme N, I barely have a drop of S in me, lol. But on T-F for instance, I'm a T, but still fairly close to center, so I still have a bit more balance here.

[pp4me]

I guess this a typical question of does art imitate life or does life imitate art. Listening to country music station while showering this morning the lyrical imagery pairing nostalgic images of better simpler times with simpler problems and what not made me wonder how much this type of music convinces people that this place they sing about in these songs used to exist. There is so much american mystique that is wrapped up into the conservative movement it seems to me...people pining for this imaginary place that country singers sing about. If it weren't for the damn liberals we would all be living the dream.

Interesting way to start a day playing country music and thinking about conservatives while taking a shower in the morning.

My conservative fishing buddies would have a lot of fun finding the Freudian implications in that.

[yankees60]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

I'm a big-time music person and other than associating country music as attracting those of a certain political leaning have never otherwise associated any other music with any other political leanings.

However, I have met a fair amount of musicians. And, I believe that the vast majority of them are liberal. Which I always attributed to their lifestyle causing them to experience a lot more than what the typical person experiences. For example, there was integration and acceptance of blacks in the music world both to far greater degree and much earlier than in the rest of our country.

Vinny

Generally speaking, creatives tend to be liberal. As such themes in music, art, film, fictional books, TV, video games, etc tend to have very liberal undertones.

If what you say is true where is the cause and effect of being creative and then being liberal or vice versa?

VInny

It's related to personality type. Creative people tend to be more on the "feeling" and "sensing" spectrums in a Myers-Briggs model. People on the feeling and sensing spectrums tend to be very compassionate, empathetic, and caring. They tend to value the whole over the self. This is really the root context of the liberal mind.

In the Myers-Briggs model I am high on both the "thinking" and "sensing". On the latter is is almost 100%, no intuition.

My thought, though, would have been that creative people by definition would be the complete opposite to me on the sensing / intuitive spectrum. Almost all intuition. They don't do things in a step-by-step fashion like I do. Things just come to them.

Vinny

I'm speaking in kind of generalizations here, so there are definitely exceptions to the rule. But yeah, creatives are generally speaking are more sensing than intuitive. But these things also are not binary, they are a spectrum. So someone can be N dominant, but still have a lot of S tendencies for instance. That one would not be me, I'm an extreme N, I barely have a drop of S in me, lol. But on T-F for instance, I'm a T, but still fairly close to center, so I still have a bit more balance here.

Looks like we are both wrong! If this is accurate, when I counted them, there seems to me slightly more intuitive's than sensing's, which greatly surprised me. I expected to find almost no sensing's.

http://intuitivemusician.com/category/p ... ns/page/4/

Vinny

[pmward]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

I'm a big-time music person and other than associating country music as attracting those of a certain political leaning have never otherwise associated any other music with any other political leanings.

However, I have met a fair amount of musicians. And, I believe that the vast majority of them are liberal. Which I always attributed to their lifestyle causing them to experience a lot more than what the typical person experiences. For example, there was integration and acceptance of blacks in the music world both to far greater degree and much earlier than in the rest of our country.

Vinny

Generally speaking, creatives tend to be liberal. As such themes in music, art, film, fictional books, TV, video games, etc tend to have very liberal undertones.

If what you say is true where is the cause and effect of being creative and then being liberal or vice versa?

VInny

It's related to personality type. Creative people tend to be more on the "feeling" and "sensing" spectrums in a Myers-Briggs model. People on the feeling and sensing spectrums tend to be very compassionate, empathetic, and caring. They tend to value the whole over the self. This is really the root context of the liberal mind.

In the Myers-Briggs model I am high on both the "thinking" and "sensing". On the latter is is almost 100%, no intuition.

My thought, though, would have been that creative people by definition would be the complete opposite to me on the sensing / intuitive spectrum. Almost all intuition. They don't do things in a step-by-step fashion like I do. Things just come to them.

Vinny

I'm speaking in kind of generalizations here, so there are definitely exceptions to the rule. But yeah, creatives are generally speaking are more sensing than intuitive. But these things also are not binary, they are a spectrum. So someone can be N dominant, but still have a lot of S tendencies for instance. That one would not be me, I'm an extreme N, I barely have a drop of S in me, lol. But on T-F for instance, I'm a T, but still fairly close to center, so I still have a bit more balance here.

Looks like we are both wrong! If this is accurate, when I counted them, there seems to me slightly more intuitive's than sensing's, which greatly surprised me. I expected to find almost no sensing's.

http://intuitivemusician.com/category/p ... ns/page/4/

Vinny

A whole LOT of F's. That seems to be the biggest predictor. And even for those who aren't "F" you don't really know where exactly they are on the spectrum. They could be just barely "T".

[yankees60]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

I'm a big-time music person and other than associating country music as attracting those of a certain political leaning have never otherwise associated any other music with any other political leanings.

However, I have met a fair amount of musicians. And, I believe that the vast majority of them are liberal. Which I always attributed to their lifestyle causing them to experience a lot more than what the typical person experiences. For example, there was integration and acceptance of blacks in the music world both to far greater degree and much earlier than in the rest of our country.

Vinny

Generally speaking, creatives tend to be liberal. As such themes in music, art, film, fictional books, TV, video games, etc tend to have very liberal undertones.

If what you say is true where is the cause and effect of being creative and then being liberal or vice versa?

VInny

It's related to personality type. Creative people tend to be more on the "feeling" and "sensing" spectrums in a Myers-Briggs model. People on the feeling and sensing spectrums tend to be very compassionate, empathetic, and caring. They tend to value the whole over the self. This is really the root context of the liberal mind.

In the Myers-Briggs model I am high on both the "thinking" and "sensing". On the latter is is almost 100%, no intuition.

My thought, though, would have been that creative people by definition would be the complete opposite to me on the sensing / intuitive spectrum. Almost all intuition. They don't do things in a step-by-step fashion like I do. Things just come to them.

Vinny

I'm speaking in kind of generalizations here, so there are definitely exceptions to the rule. But yeah, creatives are generally speaking are more sensing than intuitive. But these things also are not binary, they are a spectrum. So someone can be N dominant, but still have a lot of S tendencies for instance. That one would not be me, I'm an extreme N, I barely have a drop of S in me, lol. But on T-F for instance, I'm a T, but still fairly close to center, so I still have a bit more balance here.

Looks like we are both wrong! If this is accurate, when I counted them, there seems to me slightly more intuitive's than sensing's, which greatly surprised me. I expected to find almost no sensing's.

http://intuitivemusician.com/category/p ... ns/page/4/

Vinny

A whole LOT of F's.

That would have been no surprise to me.

By the way, if you can go around the web site you can see the famous musicians who share your type.

For my type - ISTJ - there were only a handful of them and they seemed to all be country. I can listen to some country but it is far down on my list of favorite music genre's.

Vinny

[pmward]

Maybe this topic should really be about how much imagining what kind of music people of a political persuasion like feeds the stereotype you have of those people.

I'm a big-time music person and other than associating country music as attracting those of a certain political leaning have never otherwise associated any other music with any other political leanings.

However, I have met a fair amount of musicians. And, I believe that the vast majority of them are liberal. Which I always attributed to their lifestyle causing them to experience a lot more than what the typical person experiences. For example, there was integration and acceptance of blacks in the music world both to far greater degree and much earlier than in the rest of our country.

Vinny

Generally speaking, creatives tend to be liberal. As such themes in music, art, film, fictional books, TV, video games, etc tend to have very liberal undertones.

If what you say is true where is the cause and effect of being creative and then being liberal or vice versa?

VInny

It's related to personality type. Creative people tend to be more on the "feeling" and "sensing" spectrums in a Myers-Briggs model. People on the feeling and sensing spectrums tend to be very compassionate, empathetic, and caring. They tend to value the whole over the self. This is really the root context of the liberal mind.

In the Myers-Briggs model I am high on both the "thinking" and "sensing". On the latter is is almost 100%, no intuition.

My thought, though, would have been that creative people by definition would be the complete opposite to me on the sensing / intuitive spectrum. Almost all intuition. They don't do things in a step-by-step fashion like I do. Things just come to them.

Vinny

I'm speaking in kind of generalizations here, so there are definitely exceptions to the rule. But yeah, creatives are generally speaking are more sensing than intuitive. But these things also are not binary, they are a spectrum. So someone can be N dominant, but still have a lot of S tendencies for instance. That one would not be me, I'm an extreme N, I barely have a drop of S in me, lol. But on T-F for instance, I'm a T, but still fairly close to center, so I still have a bit more balance here.

Looks like we are both wrong! If this is accurate, when I counted them, there seems to me slightly more intuitive's than sensing's, which greatly surprised me. I expected to find almost no sensing's.

http://intuitivemusician.com/category/p ... ns/page/4/

Vinny

A whole LOT of F's.

That would have been no surprise to me.

By the way, if you can go around the web site you can see the famous musicians who share your type.

For my type - ISTJ - there were only a handful of them and they seemed to all be country. I can listen to some country but it is far down on my list of favorite music genre's.

Vinny

Looking at that, for an INTJ like me there are a whole lot of lead guitarists and people in heady art rock or prog rock type bands. Also Beethoven. This does not surprise me, being someone who has been a lead guitarist since I got my first guitar when I was 12 and who has always been into heady art rock and prog type bands, lol.