For the love of money

[Ad Orientem]

A powerful blog post by Fr. Stephen Freeman. If this doesn't make you a little uncomfortable, you probably didn't read it.

http://glory2godforallthings.com/2014/0 ... ves-money/

[Stewardship]

To me, Atlas Shrugged pretty soundly defeats the notion that money is the root of all evil.

This part in particular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEFQC0IX9-4

[Pointedstick]

You know, even though I'm not religious, that article resonated with me.

I've noticed that the more I focus on money, the less I seem to get the opportunities to do what I really want in life. What I think I want is to build things of utility, durability, and beauty, which right now I can only do when I'm not working. I keep telling myself that I'll get to do this full-time once I'm financially independent, but it seems rather self-defeating, since in order to get there, I need to sacrifice many opportunities to do it right now because I'm kind of addicted to making a lot of money in a job that isn't all that satisfying. Wouldn't it make more sense to figure out a way get paid to do what really makes me happy right now it rather than spending years accumulating enough money to pay for what I want myself?

[Tyler]

You know, even though I'm not religious, that article resonated with me.

I've noticed that the more I focus on money, the less I seem to get the opportunities to do what I really want in life. What I think I want is to build things of utility, durability, and beauty, which right now I can only do when I'm not working. I keep telling myself that I'll get to do this full-time once I'm financially independent, but it seems rather self-defeating, since in order to get there, I need to sacrifice many opportunities to do it right now because I'm kind of addicted to making a lot of money in a job that isn't all that satisfying. Wouldn't it make more sense to figure out a way get paid to do what really makes me happy right now it rather than spending years accumulating enough money to pay for what I want myself?

I totally understand, and often struggle with the same thing.  I think it's important to think of rewarding activities as a process and not simply an endgame.  When something feels ages away and unattainable, you often miss the opportunities to take meaningful and enjoyable steps in that direction today.  It's perfectly OK to take a lower-paying path on a road less traveled if you happen to prefer the scenery. 

As someone saving towards a big goal myself, I also have to consciously force myself to avoid the thought process that "when I finally have $X, all my problems will be solved."  It just doesn't work that way.  Money is a gift and a blessing, not a savior.  As I've mentioned elsewhere, the Parable of the Rich Fool is a meaningful one for me. 

In a secular sense, your post also reminds me of the story of the Mexican Fisherman.

http://thinkboxcreative.com/the-parable ... he-banker/

[Kshartle]

"The lack of money is the root of all evil" - Mark Twain

[Kshartle]

Final quote from the Atlas shrugged clip (for those who don't watch):

“Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns–or dollars. Take your choice–there is no other–and your time is running out.”?

[Kshartle]

Quote from the article - "It’s fairly banal and prosaic. People do bad stuff for money all the time. The most common motive for betrayal of one’s country is – money."

Has no one ever explained to Fr. Stephen Freeman that a "country" is an illusion? It's imaginary lines drawn on a map where a group of humans (government) claim the legal and moral right to use force against all other humans residing within the lines. The belief that you and I are Americans and that means something other than we are ruled by the American government is an illusion. We are identical to Germans or Australians, we're just ruled by a different group. That's the distinction and betrayal he's worried about....the betrayal of the masters inside these imaginaries borders in the service of some other imaginary-borders rulers. A life of delusion.

[Mountaineer]

You know, even though I'm not religious, that article resonated with me.

I've noticed that the more I focus on money, the less I seem to get the opportunities to do what I really want in life. What I think I want is to build things of utility, durability, and beauty, which right now I can only do when I'm not working. I keep telling myself that I'll get to do this full-time once I'm financially independent, but it seems rather self-defeating, since in order to get there, I need to sacrifice many opportunities to do it right now because I'm kind of addicted to making a lot of money in a job that isn't all that satisfying. Wouldn't it make more sense to figure out a way get paid to do what really makes me happy right now it rather than spending years accumulating enough money to pay for what I want myself?

My personal experience is similar to that of PS re. what happens when I put an unbalanced (unhealthy ?) focus on money (as someone else said, money is most rewarding when it is a tool to share or give away or use to help others (like giving it to my wife to buy shoes , just kidding); if the tool is primarily used for excessive self-gratification, something twisted happens within me - maybe it is the Silas Marner effect). 

I think the principle holds true in the larger setting as well.  My observation, within my employer company and in the external world, is when a company focuses on delivering outstanding products and outstanding service to customers and employees and community ... the money flows in in rather large quantity (e.g. Apple).  When a company shifts focus to making money (i.e. the stockholders) ... the money usually stops flowing in large quantity (e.g. Dell).  Not always true but very frequently in my experience.

... Mountaineer
 

[Pointedstick]

In a secular sense, your post also reminds me of the story of the Mexican Fisherman.

http://thinkboxcreative.com/the-parable ... he-banker/

I love it. It's so true.

Of course, it's just a parable. In real life, things are often more complicated. What if the fish all die? What if they become poisoned and are no longer good to eat? What if the government of the country opens its market to global fish imports, driving down the price and crippling the small fishermen who are no longer able to support their families on the very low prices their fish now can only be sold for?

And it's those risks that keep making me want to go the route of the investment banker, I suppose.

[Mountaineer]

“The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.”?
? Carl von Clausewitz

[Pointedstick]

In a way, I suppose it's a lack of faith in myself. If the fish die or the prices fall, I'll just find something else to do. But if I concentrate on perfecting my fish-based plan, and a change is forced on me anyway, I may not have enough non-fish-based skills or the mental ability to pivot quickly enough.

Or something. Now I'm hungry for fish.

[Tyler]

I love it. It's so true.

Of course, it's just a parable. In real life, things are often more complicated. What if the fish all die? What if they become poisoned and are no longer good to eat? What if the government of the country opens its market to global fish imports, driving down the price and crippling the small fishermen who are no longer able to support their families on the very low prices their fish now can only be sold for?

And it's those risks that keep making me want to go the route of the investment banker, I suppose.

IMO, both the fisherman and the banker suffer from the same bias that success is bought with fish.  You can be the guy on the beach who invests a little in both guys, as well as the wine shop and guitar store in the village, while growing a few coconut trees on the side.  Then you can fish a little, drink wine, play guitar with your amigos, and nod supportively when both the fisherman and the banker are complaining about how hard the fishing business is these days. 

[Stewardship]

Quote from the article - "It’s fairly banal and prosaic. People do bad stuff for money all the time. The most common motive for betrayal of one’s country is – money."

Has no one ever explained to Fr. Stephen Freeman that a "country" is an illusion? It's imaginary lines drawn on a map where a group of humans (government) claim the legal and moral right to use force against all other humans residing within the lines. The belief that you and I are Americans and that means something other than we are ruled by the American government is an illusion. We are identical to Germans or Australians, we're just ruled by a different group. That's the distinction and betrayal he's worried about....the betrayal of the masters inside these imaginaries borders in the service of some other imaginary-borders rulers. A life of delusion.

Yes but even more, I think this article makes fallacious arguments.  People do bad stuff for money all the time, therefore money is the anti-Eucharist?  Unless money is shared, it always becomes an end in itself – the opposite of giving thanks?

I'd say if you want some enlightenment about wealth or a wide variety of other topics,  go directly to the Bible.

Luke 16:13 (NIV) "No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."

Mat 6:19-21 (TEB) "Do not save riches for yourselves here on earth, where moths and rust destroy, and robbers break in and steal. Instead, save riches for yourselves in heaven, where moths and rust cannot destroy, and robbers cannot break in and steal. For your heart will always be where your riches are."

[Pointedstick]

IMO, both the fisherman and the banker suffer from the same bias that success is bought with fish.  You can be the guy on the beach who invests a little in both guys, as well as the wine shop and guitar store in the village, while growing a few coconut trees on the side.  Then you can fish a little, drink wine, play guitar with your amigos, and nod supportively when both the fisherman and the banker are complaining about how hard the fishing business is these days.

Makes sense. I'm not sure if you were talking about investments or not, but it's a good argument for diversifying your sources of income, with only one of them being income or capital gains from your PP.

I should get off my butt and learn gas plumbing.

[Tyler]

Makes sense. I'm not sure if you were talking about investments or not, but it's a good argument for diversifying your sources of income, with only one of them being income or capital gains from your PP.

I should get off my butt and learn gas plumbing.

With most things I write about money, it's a little bit about investments and a little about thinking about work/career differently.  I personally find the PP well diversified as a core investment.  IMHO, diversifying capital accumulation away from a single-minded career mindset is similarly healthy. 

It's sorta like the balance you've struck with the ideal of minimalism and liking the "important" stuff.  One can create a similar balance between making new money yourself (in enjoyable, sustainable, and perhaps constantly evolving ways) and investing wisely (allowing others to make money for you while you sleep or just want to relax for a while).

Regardless of whether you fish or build businesses, the less you need to be happy the easier it is to provide. 

[Tyler]

I'd say if you want some enlightenment about wealth or a wide variety of other topics,  go directly to the Bible.

Biblically speaking, the problem is not money itself but what you choose to do with it.  Both the Parable of the Talents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of ... s_or_minas) and the Parable of the Rich Fool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Rich_Fool) address inappropriate uses of wealth.  Specifically, the foolishness of hoarding money without utilizing it for a greater good, or idolizing something that can be taken away in a heartbeat. 

[Tyler]

Tyler, do you have a money blog?

Nah.  Just a serial message board contributor here and elsewhere. 

I've thought about starting a blog, but haven't gotten around to it yet.  Every once in a while I'll be on the verge of trying it just to see what happens, but I usually chicken out at the last second. 

[dualstow]

I love the parable! I think I admire both the banker and the fisherman, although the banker would be more widely beloved if he'd built a business on fish and not dollars. Everybody loves the true stories about the pizza guy or the tomato sauce woman who started small and made it big, but abstract finance is tainted, possibly forever.

Because of the things that can go wrong in the real world like those PS mentioned, the banker's advice to the fisherman is actually not terrible, but of course that's not the point. You have to enjoy things along the way if you're more ambitious than the Mexican fisherman, otherwise it's all for naught.

Perhaps in these Occupy Wall Street times, bankers are largely seen as Judases. Some of them are, and some of them aren't.

God knows what really happened with Judas. All I know is that once when I found him in a Chinese-English dictionary, I remarked to my Taiwanese companion at the time that his Chinese name had the same first character as the word for Jew. "Oh yes," said my companion, "he's one of the most famous (read:well-known) Jews in Taiwan."
"What about Jesus?" I asked. (He's got a completely different set of characters).
"What? He's not Jewish, is he?"
"I guess I shouldn't bother asking about John the Baptist, then."
"Wasn't he Baptist?" 
So, I hate Judas, and I hate every mention of him in the Gospels.

[RuralEngineer]

I think it's possible to earn and have money without "loving" it to the point of being corrupted by it.  The idea that we all have to go join a cloister and take a vow of poverty strikes me as being ridiculous on its face.  I'm sure some people believe that, but I think they're fools and I'm glad that's not the world we live in.  Not much would get accomplished and we'd still be throwing our waste into the streets like animals.

There's an important distinction between "money is the root of all evil" and "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil" that many today miss, which causes so many issues (punitively tax the rich, etc.).  I think the main way to recognize the love of money is by what an individual is willing to do to get it.  If they're willing to engage in immoral behavior or neglect they're responsibilities (to their family for example) then I'd say they have a love of money and little good can come of it.

As for me, I pursued a career that I knew would be less interesting in order to get access to the higher salary and stability that it provided.  However, I'm staying in a less optimal location in order to be close to my family rather than chasing higher wages elsewhere.  I like having money, it lets me take care of my family, but it's far from the most important thing in my life.