Saudi Arabia - Human Rights Council

[moda0306]

https://theintercept.com/2015/09/23/u-s ... cil-panel/

Funny how human rights abuses only matter when it's in our "national interests" for them to.

And I use the phrase "national interests" very, very loosely.

[dualstow]

Yeah, it sucks.

[moda0306]

Yeah, it sucks.

The thing that really "sucks" to me is that where there's smoke there's fire.  If our elected officials can't keep their stories straight about who is supposed to be our ally vs enemy and why, what is the fundamental motivation for it?  It can't just be justifying past mistakes.  There seems to be an intentional drive to all this that betrays an intense motivation for a certain outcome... not just complacency with the fustercluck we have (the latter of which can certainly be understood).

Add in the fact that this is all done in secrecy, and trillions of dollars are being thrown around every year, and you essentially get a system that I don't think is deserving of ANY of our trust without a ton of well-articulated support, evidence, and historical perspective.  In fact, I'm getting to the point where I almost automatically assume manipulative intent.

[Libertarian666]

Yeah, it sucks.

The thing that really "sucks" to me is that where there's smoke there's fire.  If our elected officials can't keep their stories straight about who is supposed to be our ally vs enemy and why, what is the fundamental motivation for it?  It can't just be justifying past mistakes.  There seems to be an intentional drive to all this that betrays an intense motivation for a certain outcome... not just complacency with the fustercluck we have (the latter of which can certainly be understood).

Add in the fact that this is all done in secrecy, and trillions of dollars are being thrown around every year, and you essentially get a system that I don't think is deserving of ANY of our trust without a ton of well-articulated support, evidence, and historical perspective.  In fact, I'm getting to the point where I almost automatically assume manipulative intent.

Welcome to the bright side! 

[MediumTex]

Yeah, it sucks.

The thing that really "sucks" to me is that where there's smoke there's fire.  If our elected officials can't keep their stories straight about who is supposed to be our ally vs enemy and why, what is the fundamental motivation for it?  It can't just be justifying past mistakes.  There seems to be an intentional drive to all this that betrays an intense motivation for a certain outcome... not just complacency with the fustercluck we have (the latter of which can certainly be understood).

Add in the fact that this is all done in secrecy, and trillions of dollars are being thrown around every year, and you essentially get a system that I don't think is deserving of ANY of our trust without a ton of well-articulated support, evidence, and historical perspective.  In fact, I'm getting to the point where I almost automatically assume manipulative intent.

Our allies & enemies are constantly shifting, just like in Orwell's 1984.  Reading that book during W's invasion of Iraq was a surreal experience.  I felt like Orwell was writing it real time, with Fox News playing in the background.

Noriega was a good guy:



Until he became a bad guy:



Assad Senior was a good guy (even though he was a brutal dictator who murdered countless numbers of his own people):



And Assad Junior was a good guy:



Until he became a bad guy (even though gassing dissidents was a family tradition):



Saddam Hussein was a good guy:



Until he became a bad guy:



Hitler was a good guy (1938 Man of the Year):



Until he became a bad guy:



Stalin was a good guy (Man of the Year 1939 and 1942):



Until he became a bad guy:



I could go on, but you get the point.

[barrett]

From the link:

It’s not hard to understand why so many of the elite sectors of the West want everyone to avert their eyes from this deep and close relationship with the Saudis. It’s because that alliance single-handedly destroys almost every propagandistic narrative told to the Western public about that region.

Does the US really need allies like this? I mean, ultimately, what is the cost of just getting the hell out of that region of the world? We (most likely) lose access to the oil and the "summer driving season" isn't even a thing. But things could have been different, right?

Or do big powerful countries have to be aligned with heinous regimes just to stay big and powerful?

[MachineGhost]

I could go on, but you get the point.

Does this support non-intervention aka armed neutrality?  No one seems to come to that conclusion despite the sore experience of good guys turned bad guys over and over.  It seems like we value the illusion of stability and fear the monster lurking under the bed rather than being pragmatic.

[MachineGhost]

Does the US really need allies like this? I mean, ultimately, what is the cost of just getting the hell out of that region of the world? We (most likely) lose access to the oil and the "summer driving season" isn't even a thing. But things could have been different, right?

How do you feel about oil at $250 a barrel?

I say there's far too many full employment biases in the military-industrial complex for them to ever discard their NeoCon ideology for common sense.  So, we'll continuing to tinker with propping up or demolishing puppet regimes, getting involved in "police actions" against the ________ menace of the decade, and training five armed "moderate" anti-Shiite rebels for a few billion dollars to forestall their Holy War.

Corruption corrupts absolutely.

[Pointedstick]

Does the US really need allies like this? I mean, ultimately, what is the cost of just getting the hell out of that region of the world? We (most likely) lose access to the oil and the "summer driving season" isn't even a thing. But things could have been different, right?

How do you feel about oil at $250 a barrel?

I think that after a few years of that, large numbers of gasoline-powered machines and vehicles would run on compressed natural gas or stored electricity. Nothing like good old fashioned economic incentives to spur change.