Extrovert or Introvert?

[yankees60]

Don't worry Vinny, you could be an INTJ someday. Just 10¢ and a stamped self addressed envelope.


atlas.jpg

That ad was a mainstay in my comic books! All he was selling was some thing you pulled on with your both your arms, spreading them apart.

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

I've had a lot of years running and ruining startups - and INTJ's and ENTJ's definitely dominate the early years. Very eerie considering the small percentage of the population that we make up. I have always been adamant, however, that after the first few years of getting things running, we have to stop kicking sand in the faces of those people that aren't as crazy intense as we are. Because they make the world run and ensure that there is order and poetry and dog and cat forums.

[Libertarian666]

It just hit me....in any online forum wouldn't the average tend to be more introverts than extroverts?

For many extroverts all they want to do is talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk…….as little writing as possible.

Vinny

Yes, and in particular there are at least 10x the number of INTJs on fora as there are in the general population.

"If you’re an INTJ, you’ve most likely felt misunderstood or “different” for a good part of your life. You’re not wrong: INTJs in general make up just over 2 percent of the population, and female INTJs are even rarer (less than 1 percent of women are INTJ). And an INTJ’s particular set of strengths and weaknesses compounds the problem."

I am one of the most common - popular for accountants, police, military - the highly structured types: "The ISTJ is thought to be the most common of the Myers-Briggs personality types, making up about 13 percent of the population. This reflects how vital ISTJ personality traits are to an organized, functioning society. People of the ISTJ personality are known for their practical logic and unwavering commitment to duty.

Vinny

Capture.JPG

Yes, my wife is an INTJ.
As to the value of ISTJ's, I'm not so sure about that. I'd be happy to move to a country where only NTs are permitted as residents.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So no accountants, police, military??!!

Vinny

NTs can do those jobs, they just don't prefer them. So they would have to be paid more highly.
However, the big advantage is that NTs aren't interested in being tyrants. You can talk sense to them and they will agree rather than attacking you because their precious routine might be disturbed if they listened.

[Libertarian666]

I've had a lot of years running and ruining startups - and INTJ's and ENTJ's definitely dominate the early years. Very eerie considering the small percentage of the population that we make up. I have always been adamant, however, that after the first few years of getting things running, we have to stop kicking sand in the faces of those people that aren't as crazy intense as we are. Because they make the world run and ensure that there is order and poetry and dog and cat forums.

You should try ENTPs. We can relax a little better than the NTJ types.

[yankees60]

NTs can do those jobs, they just don't prefer them. So they would have to be paid more highly.
However, the big advantage is that NTs aren't interested in being tyrants. You can talk sense to them and they will agree rather than attacking you because their precious routine might be disturbed if they listened.
[/quote]

NTs may also not be able to put up with all the routine entailed in those jobs.

VInny

[Libertarian666]

NTs can do those jobs, they just don't prefer them. So they would have to be paid more highly.
However, the big advantage is that NTs aren't interested in being tyrants. You can talk sense to them and they will agree rather than attacking you because their precious routine might be disturbed if they listened.

NTs may also not be able to put up with all the routine entailed in those jobs.

VInny
[/quote]

They won't have to because they will re-engineer them not to be so boring.

[yankees60]

NTs can do those jobs, they just don't prefer them. So they would have to be paid more highly.
However, the big advantage is that NTs aren't interested in being tyrants. You can talk sense to them and they will agree rather than attacking you because their precious routine might be disturbed if they listened.

NTs may also not be able to put up with all the routine entailed in those jobs.

VInny

They won't have to because they will re-engineer them not to be so boring.
[/quote]

!!!!!!

How about an artist who has to make all those painstaking, somewhat repetitive, at some points, boring brush strokes? Any way to re-engineer those brush strokes out of the process of an artist painting a picture?

Vinny

[Libertarian666]

NTs can do those jobs, they just don't prefer them. So they would have to be paid more highly.
However, the big advantage is that NTs aren't interested in being tyrants. You can talk sense to them and they will agree rather than attacking you because their precious routine might be disturbed if they listened.

NTs may also not be able to put up with all the routine entailed in those jobs.

VInny

They won't have to because they will re-engineer them not to be so boring.

!!!!!!

How about an artist who has to make all those painstaking, somewhat repetitive, at some points, boring brush strokes? Any way to re-engineer those brush strokes out of the process of an artist painting a picture?

Vinny
[/quote]

There's invention called "photography". Maybe you've heard of it?

[yankees60]

NTs can do those jobs, they just don't prefer them. So they would have to be paid more highly.
However, the big advantage is that NTs aren't interested in being tyrants. You can talk sense to them and they will agree rather than attacking you because their precious routine might be disturbed if they listened.

NTs may also not be able to put up with all the routine entailed in those jobs.

VInny

They won't have to because they will re-engineer them not to be so boring.

!!!!!!

How about an artist who has to make all those painstaking, somewhat repetitive, at some points, boring brush strokes? Any way to re-engineer those brush strokes out of the process of an artist painting a picture?

Vinny

There's invention called "photography". Maybe you've heard of it?
[/quote]

Photography (if one considers it an "art") has never displaced painting. Two different forms of art. Plus photography is way easier than painting.

Vinny

[Libertarian666]

NTs can do those jobs, they just don't prefer them. So they would have to be paid more highly.
However, the big advantage is that NTs aren't interested in being tyrants. You can talk sense to them and they will agree rather than attacking you because their precious routine might be disturbed if they listened.

NTs may also not be able to put up with all the routine entailed in those jobs.

VInny

They won't have to because they will re-engineer them not to be so boring.

!!!!!!

How about an artist who has to make all those painstaking, somewhat repetitive, at some points, boring brush strokes? Any way to re-engineer those brush strokes out of the process of an artist painting a picture?

Vinny

There's invention called "photography". Maybe you've heard of it?

Photography (if one considers it an "art") has never displaced painting. Two different forms of art. Plus photography is way easier than painting.

Vinny
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure most art experts consider photography an art.
But that aside, somehow I doubt that many artists are ISTJs. They tend to be Fs.
And even if they were, that's still not a reason for me to need SJs in my private enclave.
BTW, my first wife was an ISFJ, as is my current wife's ex-husband.

[yankees60]

I'm pretty sure most art experts consider photography an art.
But that aside, somehow I doubt that many artists are ISTJs. They tend to be Fs.
And even if they were, that's still not a reason for me to need SJs in my private enclave.
BTW, my first wife was an ISFJ, as is my current wife's ex-husband.

I specialized in hiring ISFJ's. They generally have low confidence / high ability. Far preferable to the opposite - high confidence / low ability types.

Vinny

[yankees60]

I'm pretty sure most art experts consider photography an art.

It used to be a burning question.

Seems like it still may be when I find things like this:


https://contrastly.com/photography-art-form/


Is Photography an Art Form?

"So yes, I do believe that in the right circumstances photography is an art form. And it’s an art form that takes skill, artistic ability and an understanding of technology. It deserves its place on the artistic forum."

She might have an bias being a professional photography but even she couches it..."in the right circumstances",

Vinny

[Kriegsspiel]

I think we're in a Darwinian selection event for:

Introvert - Extrovert
Patient - Impatient
Can work from home - Must work in public spaces
Financially independent - Must work
Healthy and younger - Older and sicker

---------------

well, but older people and sicker people are past reproductive age... but losing parents and grandparents negatively affects kids, so there is a weaker natural selection link still

I just glanced at this recent paper. Interesting concept, especially in the time of the Wuhan.

Evolutionary dynamics of culturally transmitted, fertility-reducing traits

Human populations in many countries have undergone a phase of demographic transition, characterized by a major reduction in fertility at a time of increased resource availability. A key stylized fact is that the reduction in fertility is preceded by a reduction in mortality and a consequent increase in population density. Various theories have been proposed to account for the demographic transition process, including maladaptation, increased parental investment in fewer offspring, and cultural evolution. None of these approaches, including formal cultural evolutionary models of the demographic transitions, have addressed a possible direct causal relationship between a reduction in mortality and the subsequent decline in fertility. We provide mathematical models in which low mortality favours the cultural selection of low-fertility traits. This occurs because reduced mortality slows turnover in the model, which allows the cultural transmission advantage of low-fertility traits to outrace their reproductive disadvantage.

[Kriegsspiel]

I think we're in a Darwinian selection event for:

Introvert - Extrovert
Patient - Impatient
Can work from home - Must work in public spaces
Financially independent - Must work
Healthy and younger - Older and sicker

---------------

well, but older people and sicker people are past reproductive age... but losing parents and grandparents negatively affects kids, so there is a weaker natural selection link still

Hmm, I'm not so sure. I'd say some of those (introvert, patient, FIRE) might even be negatively related to current fertility rates. It's interesting to think about. I suspect if one were to do far-in-the-future studies, religiosity (esp. high fertility groups like Mormons/Hasids/Amish) will relegate these to minor roles.

Heh